Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Hudson
Since there is no way I am going to check this, could you please provide a list demonstrating your point, otherwise it is not trustworthy. I am actually just curious.
Ok, too curious, and after completing this I call your opinion busted by the facts.
Number of teams with impact players post #10 picks since 2004: 20
Number of teams with impact players post Flames first pick since 2004: 9
Year - Impact Players outside top ten - Team
(bold indicates picks after the Flames first pick)
2005 - Kopitar - Kings
2005 - Rask - Leafs, now Boston
2005 - Oshie - Blues
2005 - Downie - Flyers, now Lightning
2005 - Bergfors - Devils, now Thrashers*
2005 - Cogliano - Oilers*
2005 - Neal - Stars
2005 - Latendresse - Canadians, now Wild*
2005 - Raymond - Nucks*
2005 - Letang - Penguins*
2005 - Quick - Kings*
2005 - Yandle - Yotes
2006 - Giroux - Flyers
2006 - Varlamov - Caps
2006 - Kulemin - Leafs*
2006 - Lucic - Bruins
2006 - Mason - Jackets
2006 - Clutterbuck - Wild
2006 - Stalberg - Leafs*
2007 - Sutter - Canes
2007 - Perron - Blues
2007 - Simmonds - Kings
2007 - Benn - Stars
2008 - Myers - Sabres
2008 - Boychuk - Canes
2008 - Karlsson - Sens
2008 - Del Zotto - Isles
* indicates players I do not think are impact, but others might.
This is one of the biggest misconceptions on CP, one that frustrates the hell out of me. The chances of a player outside the top ten becoming a good player is marginal. So, if a trade is made and no picks come back (Phaneuf), it is only a bad deal if they could have been top 10 picks. Otherwise, it is almost a sure bust! It is almost luck for these players to make the NHL, the right circumstances, and even more so for the "impact player". Just look at Latendresse, he was not an impact player in Montreal, but was after the trade to the Wild... will he be next year, who knows. Also, 2005 is an anomolous year and VASTLY inflates the numbers of teams with impact players outside the top ten.
Please, when posting about draft picks, it really pays to do a little research. Even just using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NHL_Entry_Draft
Just as if posting about salary cap numbers one should consult capgeek, or somewhere. Opinions are great, but opinions that look like facts are dangerous and often perpetuate on the internet. The Flames bad draft record under Sutter is one of those myths. Sure, we don't have a great prospect, but it is because our team doesn't suck enough. Pick your poison!
If I missed players, please point them out. |
I didn't organize this by year like you did, but few the vast majority of these are from 2003 and beyond, and very few are prior to 2000 when Todd Button was already in place. As GM I blame Sutter for the draft record and keeping the same head scout around, but since Todd has been around a decade and longer, I look at 2000 and beyond as evidence of poor scouting. Not everyone on this list is a Green or Weber but even players like Eric Fehr make our drafting look bad.
My list includes only players with their same team so players like Latendresse that have gone on to make a difference elsewhere aren't counted.
Here is a list of drafted players that are good to elite outside of the top 10 in their draft years and undrafted FAs. I know we have Giordano, but you'll fid other teams have more.
Anaheim - Getzlaf (19), Perry (28), Hiller (undrafted FA)
Atlanta - Enstrom (8th rounder), Little (12th)
Boston - 2nd rounders (Lucic, Bergeron, Krejci)
Buffalo - Miller (5th rounder) , Roy (2nd rounder), Pominville (2nd round), Stafford (13), Myers (12), Butler (4th round), Tallinder (2nd rounder)
Carolina - Sutter (11), Ward (25)
Chicago - Keith (2nd round), Seabrook (14), Hjalmarsson (4th round), Brouwer (7th rounder), Byfuglien (8th rounder), Bolland (2nd round)
Colorado - Stasny (2nd round), Stewart (18), Galiardi (2nd round), Liles (5th round), O'Rilley (2nd round)
Columbus - Mason (3rd rounder)
Dallas - Ericksson (2nd round), Neal (2nd round), Morrow (25), Benn (5th round), Ott (25), Niskanen (28)
Detroit - Datsyuk (6th round), Zetterberg (7th round), Lidstrom (3rd round), Holmstrom (10th round), Filppula (3rd round), Helm (5th round), Kronawll (29), Ericksson (9th round), Franzen (3rd round), Abdelkader (2nd round)
Edmonton - Cogliano (25), Horcoff (4th round), Hemsky (13)
Florida - Booth (2nd round)
LA - Frolov (20), Brown (13), Simmonds (2nd round), Quick (3rd round)
Montreal - Plekanec (3rd round), Markov (6th round), Halak (9th round)
Nashville - Erat (7th round), Hornqvist (7th round), Weber (2nd round), Hamhius (12), Rinne (8th round)
NJ - Clarkson (undrafted free agent), Greene (undrafted free agent), Zajac (20), Parise (17), Martin (2nd round)
NYR - Lundqvist (7th round), Callahan (4th round), Dubinsky (2nd round), Del Zotto (20), Staal (12), Girardi (undrafted free agent)
Ottawa - Fisher (2nd round), Foligno (28), Volchenkov (24), Karlsson (15), Elliot (9th round)
Phili - Carter (11), Richards (24), Giroux (22)
Phoenix - Yandle (4th round)
Pittsburgh - Letang (3rd round), Goligoski (2nd round), Orpik (18), Talbot (8th round)
St. Louis - Backes (2nd rounder), 25-29 (Oshie, Berglund, Perron)
SJ - Vlasic (2nd round), Clowe (6th round), Pavelski (7th round)
TB - Ranger (6th round)
Toronto - Kulemin (2nd round), Bozak (undrafted free agent), Stahlberg (6th round)
Vancouver - Kesler (23), Burrows (undrafted free agent), Raymond (2nd round), Edler (3rd round), Bieksa (5th round).
Washington - Green (2nd round), Semin (13), Varlamov (23), Schultz (26), Fehr (18)