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Azure · 03-25-2010, 12:11 PM

Its actually quite hilarious how people think this is a good 'plan.'

The insurance companies are laughing all the way to the bank.

A couple things people are forgetting. Or they don't understand it. Especially Americans. France and Germany have a highly competitive market when it comes to insurance companies. Only a fool would argue that competition is bad for business. The secret is that their 'market' is based on an artificial scale.

Lets take the French system for example, often said to be the BEST healthcare system in the world.

75% of the cost is covered by the Federal Government. While that DOES account for a lot, it still leaves millions of dollars in healthcare costs out there for the individual to pay. This is where the insurance companies come in. The remaining 25% of the healthcare costs are covered by private insurance companies who are in it to make money. Not non-profit like the Swiss system. They're in it to MAKE money. And from all accounts these evil insurance companies who are in it to make money do a better job than ANY insurance company in the US. I'll explain why down below.

There are few things about the 'private' side of the health care system in France that I don't think people know.

The private insurance companies that cover the 25% of the cost are free to set their OWN price. There is absolutely no government meddling involved(heh, what a direct kick in the junk to the freedom in the 'land of the free'). There is ABSOLUTELY no legislation restricting totally free competition when it comes to the remaining 25% of the cost. None. Zero. Nadda.
There are a dozen providers. Perhaps even more. People in France are free to CHOOSE, because these providers are nation wide. Not limited to a particular region or territory. NATION-wide.
They set up a plan with a customer that is tailored to his needs and his pocketbook. They can offer you 100% of everything, exclude some things, set ceilings on how much they'll cover, include a deductible amount, cover only really major expenses, or whatever they and the potential customer work out. Again, a lot of choice, and NO government meddling.
Since there are no limits on prices and plans, there is no problem with "pre-existing conditions." Instead of refusing you, they'll just take that into account in their proposal. Buying medical insurance ALWAYS involves filling out a fairly extensive medical questionnaire, not only so they can see what your needs are but also so they can better evaluate their risks. Again, no government meddling involved.

What does it equal? Along with the public system it equals a top 5 health care system in the world.

Now you're going to ask, how is the American system different. Well, here is what I've come up with.

The insurance commissioner in each state basically has absolute power over whether new insurance companies can be created and if existing ones can continue operating. Most if not all use it to keep the existing insurers' monopoly/oligopoly status intact. You'll notice that whenever a state starts taking a look at rate hikes, it's always the Attorney General's office, never the Insurance Commissioner's, despite the fact that they have the powers to approve and veto rate hikes.
Then there's the mandates. Many states mandate certain procedures and medications be covered, despite the fact that only a tiny minority of people, or even none in my demographic would ever use them. But because of anti-discrimination laws, they can't charge less for people with lower risk of filing claims like car insurers can. The best they can do is weighted average out the premiums over the age range and gender, for everyone in that group. And they have to charge more even to cover impossibilities. In other words people are paying for substance abuse coverage even though a HUGE portion of the population doesn't need it. The insurance commissioners have something to do with keeping rates equal as well - if one insurer wants to have absolutely excellent customer service, well, that's too bad because it means that less than the required minimum percentage of premiums will be spent on actual medical care (they set that percentage, often but not always on instruction from the legislature). With almost no differentiation between private insurers, prices naturally reach equality.
As a result, people are left with maybe 1, maybe 2 providers, and both of them do their best to make the most amount of money. There is no competition involved like the French system where private insurance companies can without regulation and meddling set their prices, what they cover, etc, etc. This creates a HUGE monopoly on the system. Of course Washington is so overrun with lobbyists that they really don't give a crap. Obamacare, if you actually look at the finer details was very much influenced by the insurance companies. Hell, the Senate Bill was practically written by an insurance lobbyist group in Washington.
And of course, you can't sell insurance across state lines, which is again half legislature, half commissioners, depends on the state. So there goes a whole potential industry, disallowing economies of scale and any innovation that might occur. Kinda makes the people who said tort reform isn't important look a bit stupid if you bother to pay attention to how the more successful European systems function.
The way I understand it, despite not being able to sell insurance across state lines, there are still a select few insurance providers in the US. They just operate separately in each state. Result? A nation wide monopoly with a HUGE amount of restrictions involved.
And we haven't even talked about the Federal Government's involvement. Between HIPPA's elimination of common sense (and introduction of paperwork which has probably felled a forest by now), and managed care, and the HMO Act...etc, etc, etc.

Obamacare does NOTHING to solve any of these MAJOR problems. It just adds a whole other layer of government stupidity in an attempt to fix a system that badly needs to be BLOWN UP, and built up from scratch.

But hey, I guess some healthcare is better than no healthcare when you're on the way down.

Too bad Americans don't expect a better system. Its sad really, because they could do SO much better.

03-25-2010, 12:11 PM	#250
Azure Had an idea! Join Date: Oct 2005 Exp:	Its actually quite hilarious how people think this is a good 'plan.' The insurance companies are laughing all the way to the bank. A couple things people are forgetting. Or they don't understand it. Especially Americans. France and Germany have a highly competitive market when it comes to insurance companies. Only a fool would argue that competition is bad for business. The secret is that their 'market' is based on an artificial scale. Lets take the French system for example, often said to be the BEST healthcare system in the world. 75% of the cost is covered by the Federal Government. While that DOES account for a lot, it still leaves millions of dollars in healthcare costs out there for the individual to pay. This is where the insurance companies come in. The remaining 25% of the healthcare costs are covered by private insurance companies who are in it to make money. Not non-profit like the Swiss system. They're in it to MAKE money. And from all accounts these evil insurance companies who are in it to make money do a better job than ANY insurance company in the US. I'll explain why down below. There are few things about the 'private' side of the health care system in France that I don't think people know. The private insurance companies that cover the 25% of the cost are free to set their OWN price. There is absolutely no government meddling involved(heh, what a direct kick in the junk to the freedom in the 'land of the free'). There is ABSOLUTELY no legislation restricting totally free competition when it comes to the remaining 25% of the cost. None. Zero. Nadda. There are a dozen providers. Perhaps even more. People in France are free to CHOOSE, because these providers are nation wide. Not limited to a particular region or territory. NATION-wide. They set up a plan with a customer that is tailored to his needs and his pocketbook. They can offer you 100% of everything, exclude some things, set ceilings on how much they'll cover, include a deductible amount, cover only really major expenses, or whatever they and the potential customer work out. Again, a lot of choice, and NO government meddling. Since there are no limits on prices and plans, there is no problem with "pre-existing conditions." Instead of refusing you, they'll just take that into account in their proposal. Buying medical insurance ALWAYS involves filling out a fairly extensive medical questionnaire, not only so they can see what your needs are but also so they can better evaluate their risks. Again, no government meddling involved. What does it equal? Along with the public system it equals a top 5 health care system in the world. Now you're going to ask, how is the American system different. Well, here is what I've come up with. The insurance commissioner in each state basically has absolute power over whether new insurance companies can be created and if existing ones can continue operating. Most if not all use it to keep the existing insurers' monopoly/oligopoly status intact. You'll notice that whenever a state starts taking a look at rate hikes, it's always the Attorney General's office, never the Insurance Commissioner's, despite the fact that they have the powers to approve and veto rate hikes. Then there's the mandates. Many states mandate certain procedures and medications be covered, despite the fact that only a tiny minority of people, or even none in my demographic would ever use them. But because of anti-discrimination laws, they can't charge less for people with lower risk of filing claims like car insurers can. The best they can do is weighted average out the premiums over the age range and gender, for everyone in that group. And they have to charge more even to cover impossibilities. In other words people are paying for substance abuse coverage even though a HUGE portion of the population doesn't need it. The insurance commissioners have something to do with keeping rates equal as well - if one insurer wants to have absolutely excellent customer service, well, that's too bad because it means that less than the required minimum percentage of premiums will be spent on actual medical care (they set that percentage, often but not always on instruction from the legislature). With almost no differentiation between private insurers, prices naturally reach equality. As a result, people are left with maybe 1, maybe 2 providers, and both of them do their best to make the most amount of money. There is no competition involved like the French system where private insurance companies can without regulation and meddling set their prices, what they cover, etc, etc. This creates a HUGE monopoly on the system. Of course Washington is so overrun with lobbyists that they really don't give a crap. Obamacare, if you actually look at the finer details was very much influenced by the insurance companies. Hell, the Senate Bill was practically written by an insurance lobbyist group in Washington. And of course, you can't sell insurance across state lines, which is again half legislature, half commissioners, depends on the state. So there goes a whole potential industry, disallowing economies of scale and any innovation that might occur. Kinda makes the people who said tort reform isn't important look a bit stupid if you bother to pay attention to how the more successful European systems function. The way I understand it, despite not being able to sell insurance across state lines, there are still a select few insurance providers in the US. They just operate separately in each state. Result? A nation wide monopoly with a HUGE amount of restrictions involved. And we haven't even talked about the Federal Government's involvement. Between HIPPA's elimination of common sense (and introduction of paperwork which has probably felled a forest by now), and managed care, and the HMO Act...etc, etc, etc. Obamacare does NOTHING to solve any of these MAJOR problems. It just adds a whole other layer of government stupidity in an attempt to fix a system that badly needs to be BLOWN UP, and built up from scratch. But hey, I guess some healthcare is better than no healthcare when you're on the way down. Too bad Americans don't expect a better system. Its sad really, because they could do SO much better.