Quote:
Originally posted by Lurch@Sep 15 2005, 04:54 PM
How does private property become private? North America was collectively owned and then expropriated from a socialist collective, stripping the collective of their property rights at the barrel of a gun. The movement from system to another is unavoidably violent and unfair to some, beneficial to others. When countries go from capitalism to extreme socialism is inherently no different than what has happened historically when property rights are created out of thin air because someone has bigger guns. Neither system can be created without displacing what was there beforehand, generally via force of arms.
You go further in your presumptions, at least as I read them. Implying that private property rights can exist without a well developed collective legal and political system assumes that there is some sort of natural law that can be used to resolve all disputes between private property holders. Rights are only rights when a collective agrees to uphold them.
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Maybe I can borrow your history book, because from what I know from my books, it was English, French, Spanish, and later American imperial armies who killed most of the natives in America. You know, imperial countries. Again, lets blame capitalism for that...
How does private property becomes private?
- production
- original appropriation
- trade
- gift
I agree with one thing though, it may difficult to trace origins of certain property (because of the movement from system to another system). If you can go back and prove that some land was stolen from its original owner, it should be given back.
However, the difficulty is not a reason to keep everything status quo. I think we ought to aim for a free society, eventhough it is difficult. Keeping on doing harm again and again because harm was done before is a recipe for disaster (see Israel vs Palestina)
You are right in your last paragraph (save the last sentence). No such collective agreement is needed. Does existence of your right to your life depends on the opinion of the others? If the majority of the society says you have no such right, you wont have it? Then you should be killed freely? Is that your dream society?