Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community - View Single Post - Has the USA finally had enough of Israel's foot dragging and obstruction?

blankall · 03-15-2010, 11:53 AM

I'm normally pretty pro-Israel but find the idea of the settlements pretty distasteful.

Arguing about East Jerusalem is a little pointless at this time though. Regardless of who is right or wrong, the Israeli policies have resulted in facts being changed on the ground. If the Palestinians really wanted the 1967 borders then they should have accepted them in 1967 instead of attacking their neighbours. I think ultimately what you will see is a land swap, with arab majorities in the North of Israel as opposed to a return to the 1967 borders.

Although I think Israel should do their best job to return as much land to the Palestinians, I also see the Israeli point that they fought for the land in a defensive war. If my neighbour tried to invade me and I was able to push them back I wouldn't want to give everything back and sit there waiting for the next invasion. In that sense the settlements are a stront strategical move, both physically in that they create a buffer between the arabs and the main parts of jerusalem and as far as bargaining goes.

Had the Palestinians persued peaceful negotiations from the get go, things may have been different.

We should all remember what happened the last time Israel withdrew unilaterally from a territory. The local population elected Hamas and spent the next few years launching rockets into Israel. Essentially forcing Israel to evacuate the bottom part of the country. Now Israel is being asked to abandon a territory that woudl give these rockets access to Israel's major cities.

Anyways to get back on topic, I think that Israel was showing extremely poor judgement. Or at least that is how it looks.

Like I said earlier, I think this whole "diplomatic row" may just be a sham to improve Israel's bargaining posture:

1) it gives Israel another thing to throw away during bargaining. These settlements are not going to happen for several years anyway. So Israel can throw them in as an act of goodwill for the meantime. if negotiations fall apart they can start construction.

2) It gives the US the image they are playing hard ball with Israel. It makes the US seem like a fair negotiator even though nothing has changed.

03-15-2010, 11:53 AM	#122
blankall Ate 100 Treadmills Join Date: Mar 2006 Exp:	I'm normally pretty pro-Israel but find the idea of the settlements pretty distasteful. Arguing about East Jerusalem is a little pointless at this time though. Regardless of who is right or wrong, the Israeli policies have resulted in facts being changed on the ground. If the Palestinians really wanted the 1967 borders then they should have accepted them in 1967 instead of attacking their neighbours. I think ultimately what you will see is a land swap, with arab majorities in the North of Israel as opposed to a return to the 1967 borders. Although I think Israel should do their best job to return as much land to the Palestinians, I also see the Israeli point that they fought for the land in a defensive war. If my neighbour tried to invade me and I was able to push them back I wouldn't want to give everything back and sit there waiting for the next invasion. In that sense the settlements are a stront strategical move, both physically in that they create a buffer between the arabs and the main parts of jerusalem and as far as bargaining goes. Had the Palestinians persued peaceful negotiations from the get go, things may have been different. We should all remember what happened the last time Israel withdrew unilaterally from a territory. The local population elected Hamas and spent the next few years launching rockets into Israel. Essentially forcing Israel to evacuate the bottom part of the country. Now Israel is being asked to abandon a territory that woudl give these rockets access to Israel's major cities. Anyways to get back on topic, I think that Israel was showing extremely poor judgement. Or at least that is how it looks. Like I said earlier, I think this whole "diplomatic row" may just be a sham to improve Israel's bargaining posture: 1) it gives Israel another thing to throw away during bargaining. These settlements are not going to happen for several years anyway. So Israel can throw them in as an act of goodwill for the meantime. if negotiations fall apart they can start construction. 2) It gives the US the image they are playing hard ball with Israel. It makes the US seem like a fair negotiator even though nothing has changed.