[Thor]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

As you say, all religious texts demean women in some manner, but we were talking about burqas, were we not? And burqas do not come from the Quran. So what's the point of quoting general statements from it, and then saying all religious texts do this? If you're trying to debate, stay on topic. Are we now arguing against all religions and their existence, or are we still talking about the particular issues of Islam, and, to be more exact, the burqa?

Wow, well you could re-read my post or I can clarify it for you.

Not all religious texts demean women, a lot of them do, based on the attitude of the time they were written. Treatment of women as 2nd class citizens and half human have long persisted and in many parts of this world are still the status quo. Women's suffrage is a recent thing in our history, so even though we pretend its a long ancient evil we've removed from our modern western world we still see a lot of sexism and inequality in wages for women in the west.

Its not semantics. It's showing you lack a basic understanding of the culture and religious practices of the various nations that call Islam their primary religion.

How specifically am I lacking the basic understanding of culture and religious practices of the various nations that call Islam their primary religion? You want to use a blanket statement, please be specific because yes I spend a lot of my time reading books and listening to various speakers in defense of and criticism of the middle east. Especially in the regard in how we modernize and bring theocracies and the backwards political systems that infect the Muslim world.

I believe you're 'studied,' whatever that means, but I don't think you understand the people and cultures that actually practice this. And it shows clearly.

Clearly how, please cite an example of my complete misunderstanding of the Muslim world.

Until you show that you are familiar with the actual figures in these situations, that practice this religion, wear the burqa, and read the Quran, and don't just derive your statements and arguments from internet articles, I can't take your arguments in general seriously, and definitely not one against something as specific as the burqa.

Ok, so internet articles are void according to you. Guess I'll ignore the internet. I do read about the actual situations in the Muslim world. There are modernity places like Turkey where secularism is a reason they have the EU's respect. While in Jordan, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and even in 'more modern' places like Egypt where pressure and abuse against women who don't follow the strict sharia law or male dominated systems the treatment and rights of women are constantly in danger.

It's as simple as that. It sounds like mikey_the_redneck saying that some people from a Middle-Eastern country wanted to wear swords to a sports event. One, it ain't the Middle-East, and two, he's referring to the kirpan and Sikhs. Sure, I agree with him in theory, but he still comes across sounding ignorant.

Well call me ignorant but I make my points on issues, I'm for the rights of women, I'm for the rights of free speech, I'm against theocracies, I'm against religious nations that don't respect human rights.

I agree with you on basic human rights, I agree with you that religion has to change (although I don't agree it needs to be somehow eliminated), and I agree with you that certain governments need to change, as well, so do not accuse me of 'ignoring' the rights of women.

I don't think religion has to be eliminated, I've said before I think it needs to modernize, stop hating on gay rights, stop forcing Africa to not use birth protection and condoms, etc..

There are a great number of the 2/3rd world that are Christian, Catholic, Muslim which treat women as 2nd class citizens, the abuses and human rights violations are unacceptable. Every time I argue points on this, my points are dismissed as "oh that guy who hates religion" as opposed to people arguing against my points, which most people agree with!

Finally, quit saying you'll fight this thing tooth and nail, or else go and join the military and go to Afghanistan. Otherwise, quit with the empty rhetoric. This isn't parliament.

I'll fight this tooth and nail. The pen is mightier than the sword. I don't need to join a military to vote my disdain, or do you support the Roman way, only the military becomes citizens? Because warriors in the roman empire and the countless other warlike empires really did well in the implementation of rights, freedoms and making the world a better place.

My rhetoric isn't empty, its like anyone who on this website argues a point of view, be it about a political ideology, supporting a terrible team like the canucks, supporting an economic idea, libertarianism, cosmology, evolution, vanilla ice cream vs chocolate, etc...