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Originally Posted by Thor
To clarify it, #1 for me its Women's rights. #2 Its religious rights.
Human rights supersedes any religious claims that demotes a woman or man beneath anyone, be it men or god or any other claim.
I'm guessing you haven't read the Koran. Jordan is a Monarchy based on religion, Pakistan in 'parts' is very modern in the sense of a islamic country, however much of that country suffers from sharia law, rape as punishment for shame, etc.
UAE happens to be rich, and more western than anything, however the underpinnings of treating women as second class citizens is prevalent, and in fact its one of the biggest importers of sex slaves from Eastern Europe.
You are however dead wrong about the kingdom, while some women are fortunate to be free from having to wear burka's, they are usual the wealthy and related to the ruling monarchy of the country. Even so, there are 3/4 of the country where even the richest women would not DARE to not wear a full headscarf with little or no skin showing.
I have no pre-conceived notions, I'm only following what middle east experts and humanitarians show us to be the honest situation in these countries. So apperantly you've met a few people who say its no big deal, well I'm sure that counters the countless accounts by Amnesty of the brutal degradation of women's rights in much of the middle east, the sad state of affairs in even the most 'modern' islamic states.
True, and its very true of the islamic world, poorly educated, abused and suffering women in these conditions do not seek suffrage they support and eagerly promote religious zealotry.
Clearly this is far from being solved, and quite honestly the fact the UK is battling Sharia law, religious schools, the French are dealing with a massive muslim population which is pushing reforms promoting muslim beliefs.
There is no doubt, the evangelical right in north america tries to put women down 1 notch, and the muslim world its commonplace to put women not only socially as inferiors, but in the laws of these countries.
But since you've talked to a few people, you must be an expert.  |
Of course human rights supersedes all. I doubt there are many in CP that would think differently. I'm not an expert. Neither are you. It is so immensely huge of a topic and issue that very few can actually call themselves that without some sort of agenda or bias, but it helps to actually hear and learn from those who are the ones suffering, or not suffering, from the issue. You apply the academic approach after.
I have read the Qu'ran. I actually own a copy. Have you? Because the preachings about wearing burqas does not come from the Qu'ran. It preaches modesty amongst women (as the Bible does). Where do you think the teachings about burqas come from? I'll let you find that one out.
They do not wear burqas in Saudi Arabia. They wear abayas and niqabs. There is a difference, even if you wish to lump them together.
I will admit, it bothers me that you are so passionate about this without knowing the actual details of the culture and the religion itself, at least not where it concerns the burqa, as the topic is. It bothers me you would say something like the irony of the Islamic world is that the uneducated women are the ones to support their own subjugation when it is how the poor and uneducated all over the world behave, not only Muslims. It speaks volumes of the Islamophobia in this country. I understand human rights supersedes all, as it should, and we have it fairly good in Canada, but the Muslim religion is dominated by cultural and regional variances most unlike anything in the Christian world. There is no Pope, no priests in our sense, and no real, 'official' dogma. You follow the Qu'ran... You follow the Hadiths... And on top of all that the cultural values of where you live impact everything, in an area of the world far more ancient and divided than anything we have in America.
Something like a burqa ban, besides the implications upon our values, is something that would only serve to infuriate those who already feel isolated as it is. You can't fight an insurgency with bombs and expect to win, and you can't fight something that permeates a religion and a culture with wide ranging edicts, either. Women's rights in Islam is one of its biggest issues, that's nothing new, and it's a war being fought within it, and it has to change. Things are SLOWLY changing, though, just as they slowly changed in our society, but it will take time. And once the time comes, you will probably still see some women wearing their burqas.