[Thor]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

In one post you say women's rights, in another it's religious rights. Which is it?

Describe to me what you believe most of the Islamic world is. Afghanistan and Pakistan? Vast swathes of the Islamic world do NOT, in fact, wear burqas.

To clarify it, #1 for me its Women's rights. #2 Its religious rights.

Human rights supersedes any religious claims that demotes a woman or man beneath anyone, be it men or god or any other claim.

There is a very, very large difference in the practices of the western Islamic nations compared to the east. A woman in Jordan lives in a society more modern and open than a woman in Pakistan or Afghanistan (two of the most strict of the Islamic countries when it comes to women). A woman in the UAE is able to wear what she wants. A woman in Saudi Arabia is much more limited, but did you know women in Saudi Arabia DON'T wear burqas?

I'm guessing you haven't read the Koran. Jordan is a Monarchy based on religion, Pakistan in 'parts' is very modern in the sense of a islamic country, however much of that country suffers from sharia law, rape as punishment for shame, etc.

UAE happens to be rich, and more western than anything, however the underpinnings of treating women as second class citizens is prevalent, and in fact its one of the biggest importers of sex slaves from Eastern Europe.

You are however dead wrong about the kingdom, while some women are fortunate to be free from having to wear burka's, they are usual the wealthy and related to the ruling monarchy of the country. Even so, there are 3/4 of the country where even the richest women would not DARE to not wear a full headscarf with little or no skin showing.

I find it strange that you assume the only Muslim women we know of live in this country. Do you assume the people we know are all Canadians? Do you have a pre-conceived conception that only Canadian Muslims choose to wear burqas? My girlfriend is an immigrant from Pakistan. I've known of and spoken to women from not only our country, but from the one that is probably the worst when it comes to women's rights. Thanks, though.

I have no pre-conceived notions, I'm only following what middle east experts and humanitarians show us to be the honest situation in these countries. So apperantly you've met a few people who say its no big deal, well I'm sure that counters the countless accounts by Amnesty of the brutal degradation of women's rights in much of the middle east, the sad state of affairs in even the most 'modern' islamic states.

I still want to know what you mean when you say 'most' in all capitals. Those the least educated and most in poverty are the most supportive of their subjugation is not an irony of the Islamic world, it's an irony of all people the world over.

True, and its very true of the islamic world, poorly educated, abused and suffering women in these conditions do not seek suffrage they support and eagerly promote religious zealotry.

Anyways, this topic has been discussed ad nauseum on this message board... No one will sway anyone elses opinion on how this should be handled in the long run.

Clearly this is far from being solved, and quite honestly the fact the UK is battling Sharia law, religious schools, the French are dealing with a massive muslim population which is pushing reforms promoting muslim beliefs.

There is no doubt, the evangelical right in north america tries to put women down 1 notch, and the muslim world its commonplace to put women not only socially as inferiors, but in the laws of these countries.

But since you've talked to a few people, you must be an expert.