[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Knalus

See, I don't see you backing down, and I don't see you winning this debate either. So...

So what? Have I been faced with evidence on anything? Kirk Cameron has been faced with evidence against what he preaches, yet he ignores it.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So in your mind, you have people that don't believe in evolution as an example. You can't convince then in a debate that they're wrong and your right because their belief system is all the evidence they need, and their faith. What do you do then?

I don't know what to do there. Some people are just stupid and you can't convince them I guess.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Wow, child molestation is not a belief my friend is a behavior or even an ingrained sexual deviancy. Child molesters don't become child molestors because they examined all sides of the coin and convinced themselves that it was ok, they convinced themselves that it was ok because there is something wrong with their ingrained mental makeup that arouses them when they see kids, just like a normal person gets aroused when they see a hot legal chick in a small bikini.

Thanks for providing support to my point. If you are religious or if you believe in intelligent design, it is not because you have examined all sides of the coin and rationally and logically come to your conclusions.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Being gay is not a belief its an orientation. I couldn't turn gay if I believed that it was the thing to do because it just wouldn't get me all that excited

Your example has nothing to do with the discussion, and whether you ment to or not linking religious beliefs to child molestation is really insulting and a serious WTF moment.

Oh please, don't play that card. Using an extreme example is just a tool. I'm not suggesting if you are religious you're likely to be a child molestor as well.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Not true according too?

We're talking beliefs here, to him, what he's talking about is the truth

Who decides the truth or what the truth is? Is it up to the government? the individual? some secretive society of seers huddling over a caldron of bubbling baby parts?

Truth is arrived at through evidence. Seriously dude, I can't tell if you're serious or if you are just playing the devil's advocate.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

There's that logical and rational again. To Kirk Cameron, his beliefs are very logical and rational and based in facts created in his belief system.

They're based on flawed logic.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

When Darwin's book first came out there was a fairly strong backlash against it, a great many people saw it as an afront to what was common knowledge at the time, just because it was accepted now, doesn't mean that it was accepted then, and Darwin was probably viewed by a majority of people as his generations Kirk Cameron.

Thankfully, I would say more people are logical and rational now and they are certainly better educated than they were in the past.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

To you it is objective truths.

One of the tenents of this society is that we are allowed to believe what we wish to believe, we are even allowed to spread out beliefs to those who accept them.

Well what if I believe there is nothing wrong with "loving" a 15 year old girl. I think society would have a problem with that.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Kirk Cameron is not spreading hate, he seems to be willing to debate his beliefs with anyone who listens, he's not forcing his beliefs on anyone so its up to the individual on whether they adopt those beliefs or not based on that discussion.

Yes well his beliefs are not true; that's what I don't like about them.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So then and conversly then you can't give points to the evolutionists for not backing down, they must be tremendously closed minded.

No, they have evidence. Kirk Cameron has flawed logic. They are not equally valid arguements. Kirk Cameron is wrong.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm not an atheist, I'm not a religious guy, I'm all over evolution, but because I have the faith to believe in a higher power I must be a liar and I should be hammered down by members of society because I don't have the same belief system as them?

I am curious to know why you believe in a higher power, aside from faith.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Yeah, way to throw the wide net there and call people with a religious slant ignorant or closed minded.

I might not believe what they say, but I respect their right to believe it and have the moral center enough to discuss it and debate it.

Well I'm debating it as well so I guess we have that in common. People can believe whatever they want and I won't bother them, but as soon as they start publicly preaching misinformation, I think they should be challenged.