[Thor]

Originally Posted by OBCT

I really appreciate your ability to keep a discussion civil and free of unnecessary insults.

Beyond that point, I am actually serious. As peter12 mentioned earlier, I find that people in today's "civilized" culture are often too quick to assume that the way we do/see/understand/believe things today are far superior to the way things used to be. I disagree.

How are we not superior in our way of 'things' from the ancient civilizations of 2000 years ago?

The Bible was written in a different time. Today, lots of people are into relativistic morality and truth, so here's a comparison that might work for them. Back in Biblical times, slavery was right for them. I do not know exactly what the history of slavery is for humankind, but I know that it was prevalent for many many years (and still, sadly, is in some areas).

Well the key is how do you view the bible, inerrant fact, allegory, or outright man made fairytales. Back in biblical times, lots of things were right for them, if the bible is a book of morality which many non literalists agree it is, how do you get around slavery, infanticide, genocide, etc..?

One way or another, many societies "functioned" - without economic collapse or constant uprisals leading to social upheaval - under a system that either allowed or promoted slavery. This does not mean that we are wrong today - I am certainly not pro-slavery! - but it does mean that it was a long-embraced part of our (recorded) history.

Yes which was justified with the holy books from various religions, if you approach the world from a naturalist view, a non religious view, even 2000yrs ago you know its wrong to suggest one race is superior to another.

Now, as far as God's stance on the subject... again, I'm not sure He needs my defense. I will say that the Bible was in most ways not written to promote social reform (at least not directly). It calls believers to act in propriety, and if that means having the grace to free their slave, as example, the Bible certainly leaves open that option. A lack of codemning does not necessarily imply condoning. The instances where slavery is mentioned, it is basically commanding readers not to take advantage of their slaves (or for the slaves to be loyal).

God needs a lot of your defense, as Lucy said "He's got some splaining to do!"

Slavery is wrong today is it was then, you would think an all mighty creator would clearly want to state that in his divine wisdom to humans, but clearly the God of the old testament and new testament is a human, fallible and very outdated 'being' that deserves no worship, no fear and in my own case no belief.

Additionally, this article supports my suspicions and views on the subject. Biblical slavery is very different from the "man-stealing" practices of (primarily) 19th century white Americans against Africans.

See this is the problem, you have a worldview that has a dogma, a book, and in all likelyhood is what you have known since childhood as your only worldview.

Instead of looking at this stuff with a raised eyebrow, you seek like most people clinging to their beliefs, a supporting argument to give you that comfort of thinking, there is a reason for all this.

While I view all this with a non believer eye and shake my head at the attempts of people to justify the biblical accounts of slavery, not to mention the vast other problems with those texts.

Not to mention the council of nicea, the testaments NOT chosen and those we've seen that describe jesus as a misfit teen, authors that see jesus and his story as something that happened in a mystical realm.

The idea Jesus was a living person in history is being critically analyzed now, something similar to the Jesus project, and we know have Sam Harris' Reason project wich deals with the ludicrious Bible issues.

http://www.reasonproject.org/