[troutman]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Interesting--I didn't know Dawkins had said that. I guess I sort of disagree--because religion is premised on the notion that there is a universe beyond the material, and science is based on the description of the material, observable universe.

This is one reason that it's so daffy when theists try to recruit science into theology--Christianity (and indeed, all religion to some extent) is based on the notion that the material, observable universe is illusory, a veil that lies over the true nature of existence. This is expressed in many different ways--the notion of an ascent from sinfulness into a state of purity, let's say--or the notion that through a cleansing process of perpetual resurrection, eventually you acquire knowledge of the universe.

But at their core, these ideas are the same: they hold that the world we can see, touch, feel, smell and measure etc. is not the true universe, but merely a doorway through which we must pass before arriving at a place where we can comprehend the non-material, non-observable, true universe.

The point is this: science is limited to the Material. God, if he exists, does not exist in the material universe. It can't be proven or disproven--indeed, to attempt to do so would be akin to using a telescope to look at microbes.

EDIT2: Just saw your edit, troutman. The second guy puts it a little better than I do...

If God(s) exist outside our observable universe, we should still be able to detect actions they have made within our universe.