Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12
Sort of my case in point. If you believe that the only purpose of freedom is to be free of ALL responsibilities, then why do you believe that government official's motives are any different than yours. I've had first hand experience dealing with government welfare services on behalf of new refugees in Canada and let me tell you, even though the service is there, the humanity and personal touch is not. You have no idea how many people fall through the vast cracks of our welfare system with no one to help pick them up.
Maybe you should lose some of your smugness and take some time to engage in some human charity. The paucity of government humanity would hopefully shock you.
Yup, all support programs are politically motivated. They have nothing to do with trying to improve society or even just make the best of a bad or undesirable situation. Nothing at all with the vision of a country and how to deal with it's problems. Trying to come up with solutions to complex probelms even though ideas and values differ. It's all politics.
Spiritual decay doesn't have anything to do with religion but with the common vision that citizens of a nation share. As Canadians, we would truly have none if the majority shared your view.
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When I have ever argued that freedom means being free of responsibilities?
In all of my posts on anything, I usually argue the exact opposite. That responsibility to mankind is what keeps a free society working and that as humans we are responsible to our neighbor and our planet.
I was simply saying in this thread, that even if you are a libertarian, you could probably justify spending some on social programs just so you wouldn't have to spend more later. That it makes moral sense AS WELL as financial sense to have a certain level of social support.
As for charity, I've helped out with several things. I can't claim to have any experience with the government sector as you do, but your assessment of how I might spend my free time is completely off.
And I agree, the government can screw somethings up, but surely something is better than nothing. And just because some people are doing it for the wrong reasons doesn't mean everyone is.
Perhaps it's just your experience with the government programs that has made your bitter to them. Which is fine. I'm sure there are many problems with the system as it is. But I can't paint everyone with the same brush and say it's 100% politically motivated like you did.
As for smugness I was simply replying to your original post, which wasn't exactly smug free.
As for spirituality, you are right, that has nothing to do with religion and I usually argue that point too. However your first post was so obtuse I'm still not sure why you decided to throw that in there, it didn't really seem to fit with anything.
I would argue that spirituality has nothing to do with vision that a country shares though. Spirituality is a very personal thing and it's based on how you feel you fit into the world. The answer to questions such as 'who am I? how did I get here? what is the meaning of life?' That's spirituality.
So you can see why I'd be confused if you suddenly want to equate it to shared values based on a country. That would be more like... national moral identity.