Quote:
Originally Posted by driveway
I'm not saying there are not good reasons for becoming a vegetarian, what I'm saying is that the Argument from Morality for Vegetarianism is fundamentally flawed.
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Well, first I think your first problem is that you've limited the debate to three flawed arguments that I most certainly have not put forth.
Let's start with:
"1) Animals are better off or happier in the wild than domesticated. "
I never suggested any such thing and wouldn't. I would argue that with the growth hormones, the cramped hen crates and conditions some animals such as veal calfs are raised in, it would be much much closer than you might think, but I think it all beside the point. The suffering in the wild is not my fault. The suffering caused by me eating veal is my fault. By choosing not to eat veal, decreases demand for veal, means less veal calves, means less animals suffering in the world. Who is responsible for the suffering is primary in the my argument and lost in yours.
"2) Domesticated food animals suffer from the conditions they live in."
There is still white veal available. But, uh oh, you just claimed that it is possible for the animals to be treated unethically. So you do agree that there is a line to be crossed of what we think is ethical vs unethical. So it is a moral issue. Thank you.
"3) Killing animals, for any reason, is morally wrong"
"would inevitably result in mass death from a host of vastly more excruciating causes"
That makes no sense whatsoever. None. If we stopped raising a billion head of cattle doesn't mean that we are going to release a billion head of cattle into the wild. We just stop breeding them.
"And you misused the word 'hubris'."
Not at all. I believe it is quite arrogant to stand up and say that someone elses beliefs are morality are fundamentally flawed. I personally believe that vegetarianism reduces suffering, but I don't push it on anyone and don't like to discuss it unless it is brought up (like in this case). I think it is a personal belief and I don't have any right to say that anyone elses belief system is wrong. I have said throughout this thread that this is my opinion and people are free to disagree with me. Your statement is that I am completely wrong, it is not a matter of opinion, because my opinion is crap. By stating that this is *NOT* a moral issue and that those that believe it is a moral issue are mislead fools is quite arrogant, no?
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