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Old 05-06-2009, 04:11 PM   #431
FlamingLonghorn
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Austin, Tx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driveway View Post
It does call your morals into question, though.

You claim that not eating meat is the moral choice, which leads me to assume that you'd like to see a significant decrease, if not a complete elimination, of domesticated animals. At the very least, I'm sure you'd like to see the end of animals being raised as food. Am I wrong?

So here, your moral stance is that the domestication of animals for food purposes is wrong, and that it would be more ethical to allow all animals to live 'in a state of nature'. Again, if I'm wrong, let me know.

However, domesticated animals, by any measure, live a much safer, healthier, and softer existence than wild animals - who are subject to predation, disease, starvation, habitat disruption, etc. etc. So, your morals on this count anyway are pretty laissez faire and relative, as I'm sure you object to people being subject to disease and starvation, and support efforts to reduce those two scourges.

Also, as has been pointed out, in a 'state of nature' humans eat other animals. Our ability to be generalists in our eating habits is one of the great secrets to our success as a species.

So essentially you're saying that a state of nature is what's good and correct for other creatures, but not for us. And you also feel that values which we can agree are desirable for humans (such as prevention of disease and starvation) are not desirable for animals.

Do you see the tenuousness of the argument from morality when it comes to vegan/vegetarianism? If you make the choice, make it for personal reasons, or dietary reasons, but don't pretend that it's the 'moral' choice, because that is utterly subjective.
Your argument is all based on opinion, not fact. Animals that aren't domesticated die of starvation and disease? Is this a more common cause of death than being slaughtered on a factory farm? I guess it's tenuous if you make up scenarios that would happen if we stopped domesticating animals for food purposes.

And no I didn't say a state of nature is what's good for other animals and not us. Humans don't live in a state of nature right now.

Of course its subjective. All morals are subjective.

Last edited by FlamingLonghorn; 05-06-2009 at 04:14 PM.
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