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Originally posted by photon@Jun 14 2005, 09:16 AM
Hack&Lube, great post and I appreciate your candor. I've been going through a similar process, it's comforting to know I'm not the only one who thinks these things 
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Normally I don't like to get into debate about religion but this irks me. Why is it that "christians" are right?? I wonder what the folowers of other religions think of christians, quite possibly the same as you wrote Buff. I know you're response to this will be that you're way is the right way, and it's OK to believe that, but I think there is a problem when you condescendingly look at people that don't follow you're faith and feel it is your duty to show them the "right path". I believe that people need to do what makes them happy wheter or not religion is involved in their lives, and I don't believe anyone should push their beliefs onto someone else. It's like a god damn recruiting campaign out there, the church (whichever one it may be) wants your tithes. <----- Bottom Line!!!!!!!!!!!
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While there will be some people that go to church or join religions just to feel superior to others, I don't believe they're all like that and to paint them all with the same brush is both unfair and is pretty much the same act you are accusing them of. Look at it from the other side; if you had something that you knew would help people, wouldn't you want to share it? If you had a great home cure for acne, and everywhere you looked there was pimply faces all around, wouldn't you want to tell them how to help their acne?
With most people that's the root of their desire to share. Sure there are some people and churches that are militant about getting converts or that are condescending towards others, but that's true of any group of people, religious or not. I have Linux nuts try to convert me every day! 
Most Christians I know will gladly tell you their story if you ask, and they may invite you to a function if they feel you would enjoy it, but they won't relentlessly try to grind you into submission. Those grinders exist but I don't think they realize they turn more people away than they'll ever convince.
It's not about convincing people anyway; it's supposed to be about living a life that would encourage others to desire to know the how and why.
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Its not that "some" Christians or "some" Muslims are good people and are doing good things. Its the belief in fairy tales to express this belief. Is it not possible to be good, to do good, without expressing it through a God? Why must Christianity or any other mainstream religion be "force fed" to the people, and why do they attempt to make people feel guilty for spiting them?
"The only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ. The religions that don't believe in Jesus or believe that you go to heaven by doing good deeds really bother me. Some of them are so close, but not quite there yet, and you don't dare tell them otherwise because you might start a fight so you let it be and hope that they find Jesus... however, how will they find Jesus if you and everybody else after you thinks the same way and don't tell them about the truth either? Yet each and every one of us (by us I mean Christians) are guilty of this."
I know literally hundreds of good solid upstanding people who are what you and I would consider Atheists, or non Theists, that do wonderful things for all types of organizations, without the attachment of a religion. They deserve the same recognition as a church in my opinion. The difference is they dont desire the limelight and do it from their hearts with no political agenda whatsoever.
The line has been drawn, and with the advances of science and the knowledge that comes with it, educated people make smarter decisions. Part of those is not to believe in ghosts or an organizations control dogma of heaven and hell.
As in elementary school systems where Fairy tales are told and explained as fairy tales, there is no harm in discussing religion in that context.