[Thor]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That was the greatly condensed version. In many respects, I don't like to think of myself as having moved past "evangelical zeal", but rather consider my zeal to have shifted focus. As part of my commitment to the faith, I am still bound to proclaim the Gospel, only my understanding of what the Gospel is (or rather, what it should be!) is rapidly changing.

Well either way, I know that many of us regulars here have learned a lot from you and your involvement in these debates is always something we all learn a lot from.

I agree with this, and it is something that I struggle with in my own life with my own children. Even though I have unequivocally rejected belief in such things as "heaven" and "hell", "angels" and "demons", I'll be honest: Sometimes hell still scares me (The idea of hell should scare the hell out of anyone!)

I remember vividly as a child being told about hell, it was ironically one of my best friends mother who was a evangelical, she knew my parents did not take me to church and her son had mentioned I didn't believe in hell or heaven. I remember how concerned she was for me, because in her eyes I was going to hell and in her opinion she felt it was necessary to scare the living bejeesus out of me at age 9, that night my father paid her a visit and she never spoke to me on religion again, thankfully.

But I had nightmares for months after that, I was always from a young age very curious and had seeds of critical thinking at an early age, probably because our large family would sit together and discuss any and all things, often about the universe and science. Even though none of us were in any way qualified, it was neat about asking questions and debating who created the creator, did the universe just 'begin' or has it always existed, etc..

My father is an unbeliever, my Mother was slightly religious and superstitious but she would have been far from what people call religious in North America, more like the Nordic version of it (read the book Society without god!) My 3 sisters, 1 is a strong atheist like me, 1 is softly religious (far from literalism) and the other never really talks about it, much like many nordic its not a issue she feels comfortable with. My brother, is also very much an Atheist, but he baptised his children, he is now getting ready to have his 2nd daughter confirmed this year, and he attends church once a year with his wifes family as is tradition. Btw in her family 8 brothers/sisters they are split between non believers and the others are very soft believers.

I'm deeply concerned for how the Church is to move forward in the world that is more and more becoming "secularized" (for lack of a better word). My own theology is leading me to believe that the whole system needs serious reconsideration, and leads me time and time again to the following fundamental question: Is there room for a belief in God in the universe of pointless existence? Or perhaps, is there room to believe that if God exists, a truly faithful commitment to him will move beyond a dependancy upon him?

I'll tell you from my side, that I never feel like its a pointless existance. There are some great scienctists that have thrown out religion, but still cling to a deist belief, a non involving god that we do not yet understand or comprehend, or even could know what that 'god' is, certainly not a human like being with superpowers.

I think theres a good model for how to view a possible near future society from what we see today, I hate always picking on this point, but that book Society without God reminded me again why Nordic countries are so unique and that even in a very godless Denmark/Sweden people still have a special appreciation for church, for baptisms, confirmations, Priests who are there to talk to during troubles, etc.. And thats from mostly a nation of non believers.

I think the church can evolve into something like this, a secular traditional institution where we take the best of religion mix in modern thinking and find a balance. Priests can be giving lectures on the good moral messages of the bible, but they could also warn of the dangers of absolutism and certainty of religion.

Its really the trouble of updating 2000yr old dogma into a modern and new church which would be a source of rigorous debate, antithetic to dogma/absolutism and a place to hold onto good traditions while allowing for new ideas/debate and enrichment. I don't know how its possible here in North America, because its so different from the Nordic nations, but you never know.

I'm really beginning to push the bounds of my own thinking in some of my more recent ideas: I think that I may be moving into a place where I believe that religion has run its course, and that is ok. I still believe in God (most of the time), but more and more I am found questioning practically everything I was ever taught about him. Predominantly, those things about religion and about Christianity specifically: Maybe it is time to admit—as a Christian—that the harm that religion has caused has rendered it obsolete. Can the future of religion be an abandonment of it? Is it possible to remain a theist and a Christian, and to reject the sacral institution of the Church?

I can't even imagine the debates raging within your own mind, but over here on the darkside I'm starting to fall more in line with Sam Harris and his exploration of spirituality without god, something that we cannot deny exists universally in humans. Spirituality has always been forcefully married to religion, I think we could learn a lot more if we divorce them and keep it away from new agers and the like.