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Cheese · 02-01-2009, 12:30 PM

When we try to compare Creation vs Evolution we need to have something to compare it to.(This is not just about God did it, its how did God do it?) We know the basics of Evolution; Photon, myself and others have posted links and given the reasons behind the "theory". IF one intends to be a Creationist, Young Earth specifically, the following is what must be considered. It also behooves theists of all stripes on the Christian side of things to then take a stance on exactly what it is they believe. IF Im a Christian, which I was, I firmly believe that the bible is the word of God. If the Genesis account of things is NOT accurate in the mind of a Christian, then why is that they disagree with "some aspects of the bible", and agree on others? At what point does a Christian start thinking the line in the sand is nothing more than a mirage?

BCE= Before the Common or Christian Era

When was the universe created, the Creationists side of things.

Archbishop James Ussher: 22 October 4004 BCE

Young-Earth Creationists: 6000 - 10,000 years ago

Jehovah's Witnesses: 46,026 BCE

Old-Earth Creationists: Somewhere between 10,000 and 20 billion years

Catholic Church: The date cannot be determined from the bible. At least 200 dates have been suggested, varying from 3483 to 6934 years B.C.

The following is not the entire account and adds non Christian hypothesis to the Verses.

The Genesis Account:

The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events known from science is just the opposite. 1:1-2:3
God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them? 1:3-5
God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters. 1:6-8
Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11
God lets "the earth bring forth" the plants, rather than creating them directly. Maybe Genesis is not so anti-evolution after all. 1:11
In an apparent endorsement of astrology, God places the sun, moon, and stars in the firmament so that they can be used "for signs". This, of course, is exactly what astrologers do: read "the signs" in the Zodiac in an effort to predict what will happen on Earth. 1:14
God makes two lights: "the greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the night." But the moon is not a light, but only reflects light from the sun. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky? 1:16
"He made the stars also." God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars. 1:16
"And God set them [the stars] in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth." 1:17
In verse 11, God "let the earth bring forth" the plants. Now he has the earth "bring forth" the animals as well. So maybe the creationists have it all wrong. Maybe God created livings things through the process of evolution. 1:24
God gave humans dominion over every other living thing on earth. 1:26
God commands us to "be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over ... every living thing that moveth upon the earth." 1:28
"I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat." 1:29
All animals were originally herbivores. Tapeworms, vampire bats, mosquitoes, and barracudas -- all were strict vegetarians, as they were created by God. 1:30
"God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." He purposefully designed a system that ensures the suffering and death of all his creatures, parasite and host, predator and prey. 1:31
In Genesis 1 the entire creation takes 6 days, but the universe is at least 12 billion years old, with new stars constantly being formed.1:31
Humans were not created instantaneously from dust and breath, but evolved over millions of years from simpler life forms. 2:7
After making the animals, God has Adam name them all. The naming of several million species must have kept Adam busy for a while. 2:18-22
God fashions a woman out of one of Adam's ribs.
Because of this story, it was commonly believed (and sometimes it is still said today) that males have one less rib than females. When Vesalius showed in 1543 that the number of ribs was the same in males and females, it created a storm of controversy. 2:19

Should the above be taught in classrooms as Science? Would you want your child coming home and arguing with you that this is indeed fact?

02-01-2009, 12:30 PM	#87
Cheese Franchise Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Exp:	When we try to compare Creation vs Evolution we need to have something to compare it to.(This is not just about God did it, its how did God do it?) We know the basics of Evolution; Photon, myself and others have posted links and given the reasons behind the "theory". IF one intends to be a Creationist, Young Earth specifically, the following is what must be considered. It also behooves theists of all stripes on the Christian side of things to then take a stance on exactly what it is they believe. IF Im a Christian, which I was, I firmly believe that the bible is the word of God. If the Genesis account of things is NOT accurate in the mind of a Christian, then why is that they disagree with "some aspects of the bible", and agree on others? At what point does a Christian start thinking the line in the sand is nothing more than a mirage? BCE= Before the Common or Christian Era When was the universe created, the Creationists side of things. Archbishop James Ussher: 22 October 4004 BCE Young-Earth Creationists: 6000 - 10,000 years ago Jehovah's Witnesses: 46,026 BCE Old-Earth Creationists: Somewhere between 10,000 and 20 billion years Catholic Church: The date cannot be determined from the bible. At least 200 dates have been suggested, varying from 3483 to 6934 years B.C. The following is not the entire account and adds non Christian hypothesis to the Verses. The Genesis Account: The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events known from science is just the opposite. 1:1-2:3 God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them? 1:3-5 God spends one-sixth of his entire creative effort (the second day) working on a solid firmament. This strange structure, which God calls heaven, is intended to separate the higher waters from the lower waters. 1:6-8 Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). 1:11 God lets "the earth bring forth" the plants, rather than creating them directly. Maybe Genesis is not so anti-evolution after all. 1:11 In an apparent endorsement of astrology, God places the sun, moon, and stars in the firmament so that they can be used "for signs". This, of course, is exactly what astrologers do: read "the signs" in the Zodiac in an effort to predict what will happen on Earth. 1:14 God makes two lights: "the greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the night." But the moon is not a light, but only reflects light from the sun. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky? 1:16 "He made the stars also." God spends a day making light (before making the stars) and separating light from darkness; then, at the end of a hard day's work, and almost as an afterthought, he makes the trillions of stars. 1:16 "And God set them [the stars] in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth." 1:17 In verse 11, God "let the earth bring forth" the plants. Now he has the earth "bring forth" the animals as well. So maybe the creationists have it all wrong. Maybe God created livings things through the process of evolution. 1:24 God gave humans dominion over every other living thing on earth. 1:26 God commands us to "be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over ... every living thing that moveth upon the earth." 1:28 "I have given you every herb ... and every tree ... for meat." 1:29 All animals were originally herbivores. Tapeworms, vampire bats, mosquitoes, and barracudas -- all were strict vegetarians, as they were created by God. 1:30 "God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." He purposefully designed a system that ensures the suffering and death of all his creatures, parasite and host, predator and prey. 1:31 In Genesis 1 the entire creation takes 6 days, but the universe is at least 12 billion years old, with new stars constantly being formed.1:31 Humans were not created instantaneously from dust and breath, but evolved over millions of years from simpler life forms. 2:7 After making the animals, God has Adam name them all. The naming of several million species must have kept Adam busy for a while. 2:18-22 God fashions a woman out of one of Adam's ribs. Because of this story, it was commonly believed (and sometimes it is still said today) that males have one less rib than females. When Vesalius showed in 1543 that the number of ribs was the same in males and females, it created a storm of controversy. 2:19 Should the above be taught in classrooms as Science? Would you want your child coming home and arguing with you that this is indeed fact? Last edited by Cheese; 02-01-2009 at 12:39 PM.