[Thor]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

There is a problem with your viewpoint.

Some people need to have something to hold onto to keep their sanity. It is something to hold on to to keep you from feeling alone. Some people need this.

There is a lot of other things you can hold onto, we let go of Santa when we were kids and we turned out alright, considering how for many children being told the truth is quite devastating.

I think gradual change from theism to a non theistic traditional society is the path we will go down, Sweden and Denmark are perfect examples of this. Both countries are Christian nations, have national churches, people baptise their children, have confirmations, weddings/funerals in churches... But the vast majority of them don't believe in god, they like the traditions and its a good way for people to gather and celebrate moments in life as well as remember a life.

Some people need to be followers of something that is "greater" than they are because they cannot handle the cruelties of the real world.

Some people who are in dire straights need some inspiration in order to get out of their situation.

They can certainly find other things in life not supernatural to fill that void, hundreds of millions do. Social organizations, family, friends, volunteering. That 'need' is obviously solved by non believers all over the world, so to say some people can't do without believing in fairy tales doesn't mean they can't. Obviously its going to be easier for some and more difficult for others.

In many cases, whether the person is conscious of it or not, they need a crutch to make themselves feel better about themselves, others and so the world so it makes sense to them.

Thats so horribly sad to think that, while I do agree in some cases people are like that, I have a higher opinion of humanity and the possibility of people to adapt, change and find meaning in a secular world.

People like you and I have no need for this particular crutch but to deny others this is not right either. Every man and woman needs to find the path that they feel most comfortable on, and if it is aided by religion, then so be it. Now if people could stop having pissing matches over the differences in their coping methods, then the world would be a far better place.

No Atheist wants to deny religion, look how well forced atheism worked for Russia or China. People have to change their own minds, evolve into a secular society otherwise its pointless. Atheists are working to bring us into the debate and raise awareness about a significant portion of this planet falls into, in fact they estimate us as the 4th largest 'group' behind Islam, Christianity and Hinduism (not sure on hinduism).

The problem is we need to move from what I call fundy religiosity like in parts of the US, Phillippines, Arab world, and move into a more secular society like Sweden/Denmark which still use churches and have the traditions from religion without the absolutism.

Because Religion is absolutism at its core, and when you have 2 massive religions like Islam and Christianity head to head, there is no middle ground.

I leave you with this point, probably a reason why so many more non believers are standing up, speaking out, and having this debate. It was a point made that imagine IF the USSR was a Islamic nation, and the cold war in the 50's started with two nuclear powers, one Christian and one Islamic.

Do you think we'd be around today having a debate, or do you think we'd have already nuked our world into oblivion?

Thats why this debate matters so much now, we need to move away from dogmatic and fundementalist religion sooner than later, since we are getting more and more advanced with our ways to destroy this planet.