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Originally Posted by flylock shox
There are many political parties in Israel, as you indicated. I imagine this incursion into Gaza is as much a political gambit by the present government to appeal to the Israeli population - a population which is likely tired of being shelled and a portion of which has no sympathy for the situation of the Palestinians - as it is an attempt to injure Hamas. They can't possibly believe that it's going to bring actual and long lasting security, because it clearly won't, particularly when a rather ham-fisted approach with large numbers of casualties is employed, and simply perpetuates yet another generation of angry hopeless youth.
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I'm curious about what Israel is supposed to do? Hamas has never negotiated in good faith and never will, its against their charter to do anything but secure temporary peace in order to rearm and retrain. Israel has tried to negotiate, has tried to do what was asked of it and it continually gets attacked by hostile extremists that insist on protecting themselves by hiding among civilian populations. For the most part Israel has reached an understanding with the more moderate West Bank.
Israel at this point was backed into a corner both by political situations at home, and by an enemy that insists on attacking its civilian population base indiscriminantly.
Combine that with a UN that has been ineffective in the region and you have the situation that you have now. A populous that demands that Hamas gets removed as a political and military enemy and an end to daily rocket strikes.
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
Please show me anywhere in the charter above that Hamas would settle for peace in the region.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flylock shox
But the fact there are numerous parties only indicates there are various interests at play in Israel, as one might expect. It changes nothing about the power structure of Israeli politics, or the general nature of the population. And while the peace process would clearly be aided by the elimination of combative and extremist groups like Hamas, blowing them up isn't going to accomplish that. It's just going to lead to more eye-for-an-eye thinking and a continuation of violence.
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Sorry, but anything but trying to destroy Hamas isn't going to work, the time of trying to dissaude Hamas with a punch to the nose is over. There isn't going to be a peace process as long as Hamas retains the ability to launch attacks on Israel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flylock shox
Israel is in a difficult situation, no doubt about it. It has been since its creation, and it will be for the foreseeable future. But part of the problem is the result of Israel's mandate as a Jewish state - one that makes second class non-citizens of individuals who happened to be living there when the state was created, and who don't happen to share certain religious beliefs. If people of all religions could move to Israel and share equally in its promise, that would give some hope to the situation. But the fact is, Israel's entire raison d'etre is to be a homeland for Jewish people, and this by necessity means the exclusion of others. Israel's survival relies upon excluding people on the basis of their ethnicity and religion. This is inherently problematic, particularly given the ethnic and religious makeup of the people who were there when Israel was formed.
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I don't know where you get your information from, but citizens other then Jews can have any job that they want, can run in politics, vote, they're allowed to worship their religion. Your making Israel sound like a racist or anti other then Jew state, and thats simply not true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flylock shox
As for the state becoming more extreme, it's absolutely inevitable given their situation in the world: a state whose reason for being is no longer as valuable as it once was, which contains all sorts of important religious holy sites, and which is subject to constant stress and attack from outside and within its borders. The result is an attitude more conducive to fighting for survival than mending fences and doling out olive branches. But fighting will only beget more fighting, that much has been pretty well demonstrated.
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How do you figure that Israel is going to become an extreme state or become more extreme? If anything their unstable form of parliment leads to continual coalition governments which means that there is a shakey balance between moderate and extreme sides.
Of course Israel has a survival mentality. Since their founding they've been on a continual war footing first with Arab Nation states trying to launch wars of extermination, then continual terrorist attacks by groups dedicated to the extermination of Israel and the Jewish people.
Israel seems to have an unfair perception that they're the only group in the region that's supposed to negotiate in any kind of faith, and they're expected to hold up to their side of any cease fire while their opponents seem to get more of a free hand in launching attacks.
Hamas is not going to bend, they don't give to s if their civilians are hurt during this war, they're probably ecstatic when they see casualty reports as they ride from hiding place to hiding place in ambulances and UN painted vehicles as this is a public relation boon for them. Hamas is never going to negotiate in good faith, they're never going to live up to a long term cease fire, and until they're gone or their power base and ability to bring in weapons through Egypt and Lebanon is gone they're not going to stop.
This one is going to the bitter end.