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Originally Posted by Dan02
Thats interesting because no where in my example did i say anything about floor sweepers. I'm confused as how you putting words in my mouth makes me look silly.
Oil workers get paid as much as they do because of 4 reasons, that kind of work doesn't appeal to alot of people regardless of wage. It is extremely physically demanding, you're working in the middle of bum**** no where, exposed to the elements and finally the hours are worse then shift work, not at all comparable to working on the assembly line.
These numbers come from Forbes, in terms of total compensation, feel free to dispute them. I cannot vouch for their accuracy other then the source they came from.
Bottem line, union workers at the American autoworkers are overpaid and an example of how unions can be detrimental in todays society. If the American auto companies want to be viable long term they need to bring their labour costs inline with their competitors.
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Someone said something about floor sweepers, must not have been you - the point was directed at them though.
As for rig work v. line work -- you have not worked on a line before eh? It is pretty obvious because if you had you would be saying the opposite.
Those workers get to stay outside instead of stuck in oppressive feeling plants for years on end without seeing daylight, they get to waste hours driving too and from places and waiting for contractors and rigs and such to show-up, they are generally paid all sorts of per diems in excess of their real costs to party in hotels all week, they get to go out and see the countryside, and they don't have to nearly as repetitive tasks that really do wear your body down more than sheer physical work does.
A lot of that is silly, both jobs are hard, but people here in Alberta spout off about how easy those jobs are all the time and really have no clue.
As somone who had the misfortune of working on a line once long ago it is EASILY the hardest work I have ever done. I DO think they are often
somewhat overpaid just because people at the bottom are almost always underpaid but I don't buy any of this sentiment that if only wages were $12/hr less the Big3 would be fine -- that is total bull.
Management is the problem at the Big3, not line-employee wages.
As for those wage numbers I would be most concerned that they are again the all-in costs for those employees. What is the employee actually making? Is one making $34/hr and the other $29 ($5 difference is pretty small, especially when most import plants are in the lower cost south while most domestic plants are in the higher living cost north) and the rest of the all-in has much to do with poor long term management by the domestics. Also, I would also be curious how profit sharing is being incorporated into those numbers, import plants pay it and domestics do not.
One thing people out West (and in general) do not give auto-unions nearly enough credit for is raising wages and working conditions for EVERYONE in North America. It was the on-the-ground work done by auto unions years ago that got the ball moving on policy's that protect rig workers in Alberta, that forced wealthy industrialists to start paying living wages and that allow you some rights as an employee versus your boss that once held power over your entire life. People make out the 1950's and 1960's as all romantic now days but there were a LOT of problems and much of the optimisim that people feel when looking back at that time was from the progress of unions in fighting for the 'everyman' that really needed the help.
Unions HAVE outlived their usefulness I agree, and the 'Westjet Model' is much more productive IMO, but they are not to blame for the Big3 mess.
(I would say that cost pressure from unions make the poor managment at the Big3 harder to hide -- but that is kind of a circular argument. If oil drops to $20/barrel and companies look at their balance sheets they could say 'oh look, we aren't making money because of all these employees, it is their fault!' when really it is because there is no demand for their product. When oil prices went up the wages would nto be a problem. Thus: If the Big3 made good cars the employee wages are just fine.)
Claeren.