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TheCommodoreAfro · 08-20-2004, 06:06 AM

Part of the problem here with the "well Saddam was a dictator" argument is what Lanny said, about having to walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

There are two things at work for this pent-up hatred of the US. Keep in mind that the US had crippling sanctions on Iraq for a number of years, and that would have fueled contempt for the US, seen as demons for most of a decade in Iraq. The Iraqis who lived through this period would have also heard of the invasion by the us in 1990 from Saddam, who would have painted it rather differently for his people. In any event these sanction had had a huge impact on the life of Iraqis, moreso than a dictatorial Saddam Hussien would have.

Sanctions in Iraq

And forgetting about the war and politics involved, we can always dredge up Maslow's hierarchy of needs when required to explain how groups of people can act in certain situations. This applies on a large scale for sociological purposes, too, and illustrates where most Iraqis heads are at. The adapted 1990's version is as follows:

1. Biological and Physiological needs - air, food, drink, shelter, warmth, sex, sleep, etc.

2. Safety needs - protection from elements, security, order, law, limits, stability, etc.

3. Belongingness and Love needs - work group, family, affection, relationships, etc.

4. Esteem needs - self-esteem, achievement, mastery, independence, status, dominance, prestige, managerial responsibility, etc.

5. Cognitive needs - knowledge, meaning, etc.

6. Aesthetic needs - appreciation and search for beauty, balance, form, etc.

7. Self-Actualization needs - realising personal potential, self-fulfillment, seeking personal growth and peak experiences.

8. Transcendence needs - helping others to achieve self actualtization.

One adapted specifically for those practicing Islam can be found here. (not too different, some more spiritual things thrown in to reflect the values of certain segments of Iraqi society)

Before the US invaded, it's safe to say that most Iraqis were probably sitting in working on the 3-4+ categories and now many are lucky if they can say #1 and 2 are satisfied when the US and UK troops came in an wrecked what was left of the infrastructure of the country after the 1990's.

I think that's where a lot of this bitterness resides. In the West, one sees the hurrahs for dictator disposed. Many Iraqis just see a bunch of dead countrymen, blackouts and food/water shortages and can't be bothered to see what 'good' has come to their country.

I think it's sick that these guys were tortured - the only time I felt that way towards someone associated with pro sports was after game 4 of the SCF and Kerry Fraser. Still it's kind of amazing that they would be p*ssed at the guys who knocked Uday's big brother out of power. If there was any segment of society that would support them, you would figure it would be then. Speaks volumes for the invasion effort, IMHO.

08-20-2004, 06:06 AM	#52
TheCommodoreAfro First Line Centre Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Yokohama Exp:	Part of the problem here with the "well Saddam was a dictator" argument is what Lanny said, about having to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. There are two things at work for this pent-up hatred of the US. Keep in mind that the US had crippling sanctions on Iraq for a number of years, and that would have fueled contempt for the US, seen as demons for most of a decade in Iraq. The Iraqis who lived through this period would have also heard of the invasion by the us in 1990 from Saddam, who would have painted it rather differently for his people. In any event these sanction had had a huge impact on the life of Iraqis, moreso than a dictatorial Saddam Hussien would have. Sanctions in Iraq And forgetting about the war and politics involved, we can always dredge up Maslow's hierarchy of needs when required to explain how groups of people can act in certain situations. This applies on a large scale for sociological purposes, too, and illustrates where most Iraqis heads are at. The adapted 1990's version is as follows: 1. Biological and Physiological needs - air, food, drink, shelter, warmth, sex, sleep, etc. 2. Safety needs - protection from elements, security, order, law, limits, stability, etc. 3. Belongingness and Love needs - work group, family, affection, relationships, etc. 4. Esteem needs - self-esteem, achievement, mastery, independence, status, dominance, prestige, managerial responsibility, etc. 5. Cognitive needs - knowledge, meaning, etc. 6. Aesthetic needs - appreciation and search for beauty, balance, form, etc. 7. Self-Actualization needs - realising personal potential, self-fulfillment, seeking personal growth and peak experiences. 8. Transcendence needs - helping others to achieve self actualtization. One adapted specifically for those practicing Islam can be found here. (not too different, some more spiritual things thrown in to reflect the values of certain segments of Iraqi society) Before the US invaded, it's safe to say that most Iraqis were probably sitting in working on the 3-4+ categories and now many are lucky if they can say #1 and 2 are satisfied when the US and UK troops came in an wrecked what was left of the infrastructure of the country after the 1990's. I think that's where a lot of this bitterness resides. In the West, one sees the hurrahs for dictator disposed. Many Iraqis just see a bunch of dead countrymen, blackouts and food/water shortages and can't be bothered to see what 'good' has come to their country. I think it's sick that these guys were tortured - the only time I felt that way towards someone associated with pro sports was after game 4 of the SCF and Kerry Fraser. Still it's kind of amazing that they would be p*ssed at the guys who knocked Uday's big brother out of power. If there was any segment of society that would support them, you would figure it would be then. Speaks volumes for the invasion effort, IMHO.