[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by jammies

That's a start, but that's more like a premise, not an argument. What do you mean by cognitive abilities? How do we determine how "aware" a being is? Exactly what "rights" do animals get - the same as humans, less than humans, completely different than humans, and why?

The first right I obviously believe in is the right to life. I will concede things get blurry after that, but I also believe that it gets blurry when talking about which "rights" humans receive. Maybe the best way to look at it is that animals should receive equal consideration of their most basic interests to those of humans ie life, no suffering, etc. So they would then have a "right" to those interests. I will also concede that determining how "aware" something is is also difficult. Peter Singer who takes a utilitarian approach on treatment of animals says that any being who takes action to avoid suffering deserves equal consideration of that interest. I actually find myself fluctuating between Singer's approach (he believes nothing has "rights") and the Animal Rights approach which is best illustrated by Tom Regan in my opinion.

Actually I said that rights are meaningless in the context of creatures that can't understand what rights are. As far as rights and duties being complementary (and not defined by, which I also never said) are, an example suffices: you cannot guarantee the right to own property without the complementary duty not to unjustly deprive others of their property. That isn't an assertion, that is a logical corollary of what rights are: a guarantee of freedom for one person which necessarily constrains the actions of anyone else interacting with that person.

Well I certainly don't believe all human rights can be extended to animals. I do understand what you are saying here. I probably should have waited to get off work to reply to you as it was busy as hell and I've been hopped up on cough syrup. I will say that just because animals have no duty or capability to respect our rights doesn't mean we shouldn't respect theirs.

This is a true blurring of the divide between humans and animals, however I think the difference lies in a baby having the potential to become morally aware, which the dog does not.

I obviously differ with you on this. I also believe that animals can have some moral awareness. For instance the best way to train a dog not to bite is to yelp as if it is hurting you than the dog will stop.