Quote:
Originally posted by Hakan@Apr 22 2005, 02:59 AM
Care to explain western norms? The poverty and environment issue is a global norm.
Your argument here is muddled, unclear and false. Using the dualist benefits - responsibility argument (in your case civic responsibilities) implies that there are benefits. But we were just talking about pollution and poverty on reserves. Therefore, why should they feel like they have responsibilities when the benefits are poverty as you seem to imply? Also by tying poverty and subsequent civic responsibilities to "western norms" [which is still confusing me] is a false analogy.
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Are you trying to say that what our societal norms are here in North America (and Europe) are the same norms that would be deemed acceptable in Asia or Africa? What is deemed as poverty and environmental issues vary greatly from society to society. What we in North America define as a norm could, and likely is, defined as deviance in Asian societies. So yes, the Western norms are what we are discussing here.
I think its your argument is muddled and that you are chasing your tail. You sit there and say how hard done by the first nations people are, and how they have been given nothing and only want what is rightfully theirs, yet when it is pointed out that they have been given more than their fair share of what they want, and they have misused or abused that very thing they want, you try double talking your way out of what you said. You say that the natives want and deserve all of these wonderful things (like self government and our ever dying respect) but they are not required to accept the responsibility that goes with it. You also intimate that the white man is some how responsible for the natives polution and natural resource management problems that are so evident. How is that possible when it is the native who fails to look after his housing and vehicles, does not bother to have proper sanitation and then proceeds to let the litter land where it may? And is it also not the native who is the one who has over-fished and hunted the game to unsustainable levels? Have the first nations peoples not learned the word responsiblity? According to you, no they haven't. But we should continue to give them more housing, more cars and continue to allow them to mismanage their natural resources. Makes sense to me. And there's definitely no benefits to that is there?
Hey Hakan, found a picture of you hard at debate. Enjoy!
