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Originally posted by MarchHare@Apr 21 2005, 03:19 PM
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Anyways, i'm now further troubled by your notion that whatever further revelations coming out of the Gomery inquiry implicating former Liberals and those with ties to the party are okay as those people are gone. So now the Liberals stealing a few million dollars is acceptable, along with the fact that if certain members get out before they're caught, that is also okay for the Liberals? These people were formerly part of the Party, but they're now gone (some only a year or two ago), so the Party itself is clean. Keep in mind, it's not like this occured 50 years ago.
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Whoa now, let's not get ahead of ourselves. If former members of the party that were involved in defrauding Canadian tax payers, I wish to see those individuals punished. That applies equally to any current members who may be involved. I also wish to see the Liberal Party repay any ill-gotten funds that may have been sent their way as kickbacks and extra punative damages too. Where I stop short, though, is blaming the entire party itself for actions by what appears to be a small group of now-departed individuals. If the Gomery Report implicates Martin as a key player in this, I would expect him to resign and face criminal investigation along with the rest of those involved. As I said though, unlike many here who already despise the Liberals, I'm not about to judge the guilt of any present or past member of the Party until all the facts are known.
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So let me ask you then who should pay the price for this? Who should be held accountable? Certainly not the Liberals according to you, the Party itself is off the hook. Former members of the party though? Former PM Chretien? What about Martin and the testimonials starting to come out that he knew about this all along? He seems like a rather high ranking current Liberal official.
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See above. Anyone who was personally involved is to be held accountable whether they be past or current members of the Liberals, the PQ, or any of the advertising firms involved. I don't believe the Liberal Party itself is responsible, especially if the Gomery Report reveals that nobody who is presently in Parliament contributed to this. I don't judge the entire Conservative Party because of the words and actions of Stockwell Day and his ilk (although one is forced to wonder why some of the more outlandish remarks by CPC members are not met with swift rebukes by party leadership), nor do I judge the entire Liberal Party because of the actions of a few bad apples who are likely not even in power anymore (insert usual disclaimer about waiting for the final word form Gomery, etc.).
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Well I agree, I hope any former and/or current members are nailed to the wall for this. I guess we disagree in the sense that I also hope (and am overjoyed to see) the party itself will be nailed to the wall as well. All members involved represent and makeup the Liberal Party, and therefore, the Party is also accountable for it's actions. It's like hockey: someone takes a penalty and the whole team pays the price, this is how I see it in this case. When it comes to corruption in government that results in millions of dollars lost and a multi-million dollar inquiry to find out just what the hell happened, the whole party is to blame in my eyes. This wasn't a random backbencher MP who stole a few thousand dollars, this was senior Liberal officials stealing millions.
A decade+ of a majority government appears to have bread alot of arrogrance and complacency within that thing you call a political party, as they know people like you will continue to put them in power no matter what. Before, I wanted a change in government as I felt the Liberal Party was arrogant, wasteful and incompetant. Now we can add corrupt to that already great list of qualities we hope not to find in the party that governs Canada.
I can see there is really no point in debating this with you anymore as you will not hold the Party itself accountable for the actions of many of it's senior members, and you also said yourself a few million dollars in stolen money doesn't bother you. I just pray you're from Calgary so your vote for the Liberals does nothing more than give them a couple bucks they hopefully wont try and steal...