Quote:
Originally posted by Lanny_MacDonald+Aug 19 2004, 08:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lanny_MacDonald @ Aug 19 2004, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Cowperson@Aug 19 2004, 08:05 PM
I wouldn't want to be in a GW Bush commercial either but holy exploding smithereens, these Iraqi soccer players need to get a grip . . . . .
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Why Cow? How would you feel if the shoe was on the other foot? Look at it from their point of view. Sheesh. At least when the "tyrant" was in power the streets were safe to walk at night. The "freedoms" that the Americans have brought have made that impossible. Is that an improvement in quality of life?
Speaking of out of control tyrants, how is the good old US of A doing as far as a quality of life? I'm curious how the country that leads the world in incarceration, violent crime and drug problems has any right to enforce their societal values on anyone? America should focus on geting their own backyard in shape before trying to tell nations half way around the world how to run themselves. [/b][/quote]
Well, apparently that's not quite true Lanny, at least not for those specific soccer players, which is what we showed up here to argue about.
From Sports Illustrated:
"I was tortured four times after matches. One time, after a friendly [match] against Jordan in Amman that we lost 2-0, Uday had me and three teammates taken to the prison. When we arrived, they took off our shirts, tied our feet together and pulled our knees over a bar as we lay on our backs. Then they dragged us over pavement and concrete, pulling the skin off our backs. Then they pulled us through a sandpit to get sand in our backs. Finally, they made us climb a ladder and jump into a vat of raw sewage. They wanted to get our wounds infected. The next day, and for every day we were there, they beat our feet. My punishment, because I was a star player, was 20 [lashings] per day. I asked the guard how he could ever forgive himself. He laughed and told me if he didn't do this, Uday would do it to him. Uday made us athletes an example. He believed that if people saw he was not afraid to beat a hero, that they would live in greater fear."
Ahmed Kadoim, a FIFA-recognized referee who fled Iraq in December, tells a similar tale of torture at Uday's hands after he refused to fix a soccer game last May. "I was the referee of a match between Al-Shorta and the club of the air force," Kadoim says. "I was told that Shorta should win, but I refused to fix the match. It ended at 2-2. I was taken by Uday's men to Al-Radwaniya prison, where they used hoses and a cane to beat me three times a day. My punishment was 10 beatings each time. When I was bleeding, they forced me into a pool of sewage. The guards laughed and said, 'You should have let them win.' I still am in pain nearly a year later."
Yeah, it was real safe on the street for those guys.
On a broader level, you're seeing a pretty common formula being repeated where you go from a stable dictatorship to democracy:
The streets of Moscow, the streets of Johannesburg, etc, are still dangerous but less dangerous than 10 years ago. Would the majority of Russians or South Africans want to turn back the clock? For a while they did, as some Iraqi's no doubt would like at this point as well. But probably not now.
Cowperson