[Phanuthier]

jammies - I didn't reply to the some of the issues, issues and the political ideology of communist China because I'm honestly not knowledgable enough about these issues to be up to par on a debate. All I can argue is what I know from first hand experiance.

The idea you seem to keep coming back to, fear and human rights, are not a concern among many of the current CPers in China or family/friends. But these people arn't the type of people who make a stink, and 95% of China falls into that catagory where they go about and do their thing, and these headline problems we keep reading about do not apply to those residents.

Some of the issues you bring up, to me, are like Quebec seperating Canada and the October crisis, or whats happening in England. I think alot of the bad headlines give us some idea that China has this communist dictator keeping the people in fear, when in reality, life isn't that much different then here. Despite all the headline news, from everything I know of the people living there and used to live there, the political system doesn't crush them the way we think.

If you look at how the country has changed, from physical development and maturation that I previously mentioned, there is a huge change going on there and I think the demand is pushing for the change peacefully. I don't think its the wests business to change it, I think its going to be Chinas.

Tibet - I've heard alot of different sides and I don't know where I stand on it. Also, I don't know if the news that I'm getting is always reliable, sometimes I hear the Tibet monks are dressing up as Chinese soldieres and the cloth type is different or whatever and so on, but I don't consider myself informed enough to make an opinion on Tibet. Not that I know where I stand on issues like Ireland, Kosovo or even Quebec.

And this stage, I think China needs more of a centrally planned structure at this time, and its working - just look at how they've grown. Throw in a capatalist / democratic government and the sudden change nad lack of guidence will set China back. I think the change should come from the peoples demands, because they know what lifestyle they need. While you might point out that communism doesn't work, I've seen alot of communist countries that went democratic suddenly and they don't work either. Right now for China, I'd say communism is working for them and its good for where they are now. Human rights, hey its a issue and its a process, but quite honestly where is it not a issue outside of North American and Western Europe?

Here in North America, I think we have alot of problems with our system well, and as someone mentioned before, I think we are starting to see our socities crumble, fall and fail. I don't know if maybe the progressive politics in Scandinavia are where we should be going, but throw countries we are just starting to understand like China, India and Russia, we can learn from them just as much as they are learning from us.

Fact is... this isn't a black and white issue.