[jammies]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Why are you demanding what other people in other countries want? How do you know the majority of them even want it?

How do you know they don't want it? Were those students in Tianamen asking for democracy, or was that the "running dogs of capitalism and the forces of reaction staging anti-democratic protests?" How do you know that if dissidents weren't locked up and killed, that they wouldn't gather popular support? As I recall, people said the same thing about the Soviets - that the majority of the population liked the "strong hand" of the Party. Yet, somehow, once the opportunity arose, that same Party went from absolute rule to non-existence inside of 3 years.

Further, human rights are not something one needs to "want" and ask for; they should be inalienable and not subject to the whims of government. Morality is not some kind of poll - just because something is popular or the opinion of the majority, does not make it right.

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Funny that when I was in the former Yugoslavia, there were alot of people that wanted to go back to their communist ways under Tito.

You'll always have people that prefer security to freedom. I'm sure there are people here in Canada who would like to live in a police state where they could be "safe"; doesn't mean we should indulge them in their lunacy.

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Life in China isn't as bad as you think. Seriously, just ask anyone here on CP that actually lives in China and have for the past couple years. Its sort of annoying to see people think that the only way to live is a Western democracy, that everything else is wrong and must be changed. Talk about closed minded.

So what you are saying is that a Western totalitarianism is better than a Western democracy? You do understand that Marxism and its child Communism are European ideologies, and not something dreamed up in China? And that the whole system was imposed from above by Mao, by military force at first, and then by indoctrination and terror since? And are you seriously claiming that it is "close minded" to prefer democracy to communism?

Does it make me close minded to prefer free speech to censorship? Freedom to assemble over tanks in the streets? Multi-party elections to Party appointments? Rule of law over the arbitrary power of Communist bureaucrats? These ideas are not open-minded, they are expressions of the primacy of the State over the individual and the fanatic over the free man - to reject them is no more close-minded than rejecting pain in favour of pleasure.

And how is it that the Chinese have all these freedoms in Taiwan (for the most part), and somehow they manage to retain their culture and far outstrip the mainland in per capita wealth? How do you explain that, if Communism is such a boon and clear benefit to the Chinese people?

Originally Posted by Thor

I wonder do you get this upset when your friends goto Cuba for vacation?

I don't like it, no, and I would never vacation there. I refused to go there for work once (installing routers into a hotel there) and everyone thought I was crazy - beaches in Cuba in January, or Calgary?