Quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy@Aug 19 2004, 08:06 AM
First of all to say there is very few differences from socialism and communism leads me to believe that you either need to freshen up on the communist manifesto written by Engels and Marx, or you need to read it.
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Oh really?
Communist manifesto:
1)Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
We`re not quite there, but land tax and income tax (socialists love to increase both) drain at least part of income resulting from land ownership (rent). And of course these money are used to fund public purposes, exactly the way Marx and Engels wanted it.
Eventhough propery (land in this case) in large amount remains in private ownership, this ownership is only nominal. Land is only rented from the state, because you have to pay land taxes (which is virtually a rent you pay to your landlord) and if this tax is not paid, ownership later ceases. Also, there is plenty of restriction as to how can you use your land, what can you build/grow there etc.
2)A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
This is a total success for Marx and Engels, progressive taxation grew into massive proportions they probably never even expected.
3)Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
This point was fullfiled only partialy, but again inhertiance tax is a massive step `forward` and the fact this tax is hardly ever disputed in our `modern world` is indeed a victory for Marx and Engels.
4)Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
There are many examples in history where this has happened, I`m familiar with the case where property of Sudet germans was confiscated in Czechoslovakia after WW2.
In these days, the war against drugs is a prime example, where state power confiscates the property of rebels, and no one even doubts that this methods are legitimate tools in war aginst today`s rebels.
And of course, tax evaders are another prime example of todays `rebels` where someone who isn`t happy to hand over half of their income to the state, is called a criminal, gets jailed and his property is confiscated.
5)Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Total and absolute success of 19th century communists, this point was achieved everywhere in the world, resulting in high inflation (hyperinflation in many cases where people lose all their life savings), redistribution of income etc. and is gaining strenght on a global scale (IMF, World Bank, central banking of the EU etc).
6)Centralization of the means of communication and transport in he hands of the state.
Again, communist succeess. Who remembers why was post service nationalized and monopolized? State owned railroads, road networks, telecomunications, airlines are common in every country, in many of them prevalent. Not to mention the big brother effect, where governments can virtually spy on anyone and everyone they please.
7)Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
Cultivation of waste lands is funded in all socialist countries of EU, Canada and it the US, where people are either subsized if they are making losses on unproductive land or funnily they are paid not to do anything on their land, in order to cut down production and increase prices to the `just and well deserved` price.
State owned companies are labeled as strategic industries, and are protected from competition both directly and indirectly at the expense of consumers, taxpayers and of course competitiors. Full marks for communists here.
8)Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
Here I`d need some help from our resident socialists, because what is meant by `industrial army, especially for agriculture` I don`t even want to think about. However, a kind of industrial army you have virtually everywhere, and it`s called union. Unions (like armies) can interfere in matters they have no ownership of (NHL and NHLPA is a prime example), blocking owners from hiring replacement employees in case of strike, interefering how private business is being run etc. This all of course is blessed by the state as lawful and just.
9)Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
This goal is continually fulfilled, eventhough the terminology is little bit different. Our `modern society`talks about subsidies flowing towards the country (huge subsidies towards country side, farming and agriculture in the EU alone), state sponsored programs against depopulation of the country side, cross-subsides various kinds of services such as postal service, electricity, transport and other where people living in the middle of nowhere do not pay extra price for extra cost incurred due to transportation, economies of scale etc.
10)Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.
Hardly you can find a better example where a communist dream came true. The state grabbed hold of the school system, whether through direct ownership or indirectly through regulation and control (so called quality standards, enforced curriculum, ministry of education, etc.)
As for child labor, that`s for another topic, but in short - for these children working in a factory is the best option they realistically have, because otherwise they wouldn`t be there. They have to work because their family is so poor they cannot afford not to work. This is especially true in fully communist countries, where this ideology caused poverty.
Communists achieved what they wanted in many aspects and areas. Many of their demands are considered standard and normal even in 21st century. No one can imagine it could be any different - central banking, state owned communications, schools, progressive taxation.
PS I`ll adress your other points later.