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Originally Posted by Hack&Lube
It's just him cutting and pasting unfortunately. I think his point is "which is easier to believe" which I'm sorry, just sounds more like Kirk Cameron telling us that it's easier to believe that the Banana is perfectly made for humans because it has a natural wrapper, is grooved to fit in the hand, and it has a easy opening tab, etc. when those characteristics are actually selected for and not present in all wild species. "Which is easier to believe" is actually a self-limitation on your intelligence and your imagination.
I have no problem with people believing that there is an intelligence behind creation, but why force those beliefs on others? Why is it SO critically important? Ask yourself that, why indeed is it so vitally important and why are people getting so belligerent over it unless the real motivator behind this debate is a religious one?
As usual, many of the ID defenders in this thread are getting bent over the wrong thing. They are not being attacked. What is being attacked is this film and the efforts by the ID movement to force their ideas (which are not science) to be taught and presented as real science when in fact, it is simply a vessel for forcing their religious beliefs into the secular school system under a spurious guise and deception.
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Actually I only cut and pasted one post in this topic. The rest has been mine. And how is "which is easier to believe" a self-limit on intelligence. The one point I noticed nobody's been able to dispute is that neither creationism nor evolutionism is a scientific law - it simply hasn't been proven as such. Therefore no matter which side you choose, you still have to make a blind assumption or leap of faith one way or another.
I presented evidence supporting my claim, you chose to discredit it. That's your choice. But that doesn't mean the evidence doesn't exist. Same goes the other way naturally.
Show me how I was forcing my opinion on others. I have never tried to ram my theories down anyone's throat, certainly not to the extent that others in this topic have earlier. I've been belligerent? Show me where. This is a religious debate? Show me where I've quoted scripture, or answered a question with "because God made it like that" or "because God says so." In fact I didn't even have religion in mind when discussing this topic.
At the end of the day, there is evidence behind both theories, neither one can be proven as law, and to try to say the "other side" doesn't use real science just because you chose to poo-poo the evidence it uses and therefore doesn't really exist, is more of a feel-good believe-what-you-want-to idea than anything else.
You wonder why some creationists always "force their ideas" on others and it always pisses you off. Well as someone on the other side I'll be the first to say that actually I think it happens the other way around more often than not. What's so wrong with letting others believe in something different than you?
What I think the reason is is that most Evolutionists have a disdain for anything resembling intelligent design just because many on the creation side are bible-thumping religious nuts who really don't know what the hell they are talking about. But of course that is generalizing as always and misses the truth as always.
Just because some creationists are religious kooks who really haven't an idea about science but think they do, doesn't mean they all are that way. And also, attacking the messengers doesn't in any way mean their message is therefore discredited or not true.
I am done with this thread, I think I've made my point and so have most of you. I would imagine most of us are strong enough people that nobody's going to change somebody else's mind anyway. Although I think a few of you could learn some tolerance. You don't like creationists hammering you on the head with their theory? Well look in the mirror.
Good day.