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Originally Posted by peter12
On the side of transcendence, I was talking more about Burke, Oakeshott, Voegelin, who all say that society is terribly complex, but that it is complex for a reason. We have the institutions that we do in order to govern our passions appropriately.
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Come on, Oakeshott was a neo-Kantian hack. We have these institutions because the previous generations of elites developed them as constructs for our control. Interestingly, these institutions will continue to evolve as new elites are defined and they provide their unique twist on policy and slowly modify their society into their own image. It is these institutions that enable the elites to affect modifications in social and moral norms. This is the perspective that evaded you when you missed my Hitler example. Hitler would have been a social outcast and amounted to nothing had the institutions not been available to enable his delusions and then allow him to affect social change.
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Voegelin is definitely on the right track when talks about the spiritual health of a society and it's importance in providing guidance to evaluating moral situations.
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I agree with his position, depending on the definition of spiritual health. Some will argue America is a very spiritual country. I argue its a very religious country, and there is a big difference (key the arrival of Firefly). The spiritual health of America could be construed as being fit, as the majority of society believes strongly in some religion, but it is this religiosity that contributes to the discontinuity of American society and much of the discontent for the nation in first place. How does this spiritual situation provide guidance in moral situatuions? How is the moral fabric of America judged or regarded by other societies? Individually, the people are good. As a collective, America is perceived as evil. I have a feeling this situation, and the contradiction to his theory, would have Voegelin spinning in his grave. Or would this be stretching Voegelinian thought to its breaking point?