[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

No. Honestly, to understand this conflict, you have to understand the ideological morass of the

Originally Posted by peter12

United States. If you don't understand millenarianism, the development of Wilsonian intervention and how these two ascend and descend in influence upon American foreign policy, then you really have nothing to add.

Ah Peter, missed people tossing around theories like Millenarianism and concepts like Wilsonian doctrine without understanding the context in today's world, especially while attempting to cloud the two with the terms ascension and decension, as if there is any relationship what so ever.

Now, its been a while but, millenarianism is the belief that a major transformation comes because of some sort of cosmic cycle. These groups can be religious, political or (anti) social in nature, but their beliefs are that great change will take place because of actions outside the control of man. To believe that this type of faction exists within the true control structures of American government is ridiculous. The bodies which provide continuity of government for the United States is strictly focused on one thing, continuity and expansion of American hegemony. If these people really believed they could bring about the end of days or the dawning of a new age, they would use the incredible arsenal of weapons at their disposal and do so. Fortunately the groups that provide the continuity of government are multi-theist in their beliefs and worship daily to the Gods of Money and Power. Millenarianism would likely bring an end to each of these constructs and these guys would no longer have what they desire.

Wilsonian doctrine is also BS. The United States abandoned this dogma in the 60’s and has gone completely in the opposite direction. The foundations of Wilsonian doctrine can be found in his 1918 Fourteen Points speech delivered just over 90 years ago. Wilson believed that peace could be achieved through equality and outlined how such a noble goal could be achieved in this speech. Here are the present day issues from this 1918 speech and exactly the United States and the Bush administration is in direct conflict with Wilsonian doctrine.

(1) Open covenants of peace, openly arrived at, after which there shall be no private international understandings of any kind but diplomacy shall proceed always frankly and in the public view.

The United States abandoned this principle shortly after WWII and have been using the intelligence services to make sure this goal is never attained. To make matters worse, the United States has taken to backdoor diplomacy, as their standard modus operandi, in achieving any or all of their goals. Diplomacy is to be conducted behind closed doors and kept secretive. That has never been more evident than under the Bush Administration.

And let us not forget the number of international accords that the Bush Administration has thumbed its nose at and unilaterally implemented whatever levels or systems they see fit.

(3) The removal, so far as possible, of all economic barriers and the establishment of equality of trade conditions among all the nations consenting to the peace and associating themselves for its maintenance.

I think we can pretty well agree that the United States does not hold to this belief in any shape or form. Ask anyone who worked in the softwood or wheat industries during the late 90’s and start of this decade and you’ll see that the only fair deal for the United States is the one that works for the United States. Screw everyone else.

(4) Adequate guarantees given and taken that national armaments will be reduced to the lowest point consistent with domestic safety. This also said that this safety would be kept in place for years to come.

Wilson must be spinning in his grave. Considering that Bush, today, announced a $3 trillion budget that would see more increased spending on the military, and decreases to all social programs, I would think that this is in direct conflict with Wilsonian dogma. When you consider that the United States spends more on weapons than the rest of the world combined you quickly realize that Wilsonian doctrine is dead.

(5) A free, open-minded, and absolutely impartial adjustment of all colonial claims, based upon a strict observance of the principle that in determining all such questions of sovereignty the interests of the populations concerned must have equal weight with the equitable claims of the government whose title is to be determined.

The United States’ position on Israel sinks Wilsonian doctrine. When you look at what happened with the invasion of Iraq, a sovereign and non-threatening nation, and the resulting chaos and civil war, the Bush Administration has taken a big steaming crap on Wilsonian doctrine.

(14) A general association of nations must be formed under specific covenants for the purpose of affording mutual guarantees of political independence and territorial integrity to great and small states alike

This lead to the League of Nations which in turn lead to the United Nations. This is the heart of Woodrow Wilson’s vision of a cooperative world where nations would work together to find solutions to the horrors that was the first world war. How does America find itself now? Completely critical of the United Nations, refusing to acknowledge and abide by the International Courts, and in general believing that the United States has he right to implement what every policy it wants regardless of the negative outcome to other nations.

There are some who still cling to the belief that the United States holds Wilsonian doctrine in high regard, but those are few and strictly ideologues. Wilsonian dogma is as dead an buried as Woodrow is himself. Some may talk a good game, and like to quote Wilsonian doctrine, but the reality is that the actions of the United States speak loudest.

BTW... I hope school is going well for you.