[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by Azure

Prove it.

Prove it that he intentionally lied, and fabricated evidence leading up to the Iraq War.

Prove that he and his cronies cooked intelligence reports. Prove it.

It already has been proven through several reports, including the Silberman-Robb Commission report. No, they don’t come right out and say that the Administration lied, but they are pretty pointed in where they point out the failures.

BTW, no one needs a full admission to know that someone lied. Your parents know when you lie and they don’t need you to make an admission of that fact. Your friends know when you’re full of crap too, but don’t need an admission. Your parents come home from vacation to find the car banged up, and you were the only one with access to the vehicle, they are going to know how it got banged up. You can try and claim innocence all you want, but they know the truth. They know you’re lying even if they don’t have the proof.

Your logic makes no sense. If Bush was lying from the start, why wouldn't he send in a black-ops team and plant WMD in

Iraq? That way he can justify his war...Cheney can justify making millions....public support for the war would probably still be up at 40-50%....and nobody could in theory say he 'lied.' I mean, if the guy is such a crony, and Cheney is so greedy, why wouldn't they make sure all those ends were covered?

Couldn’t have anything to do with incredible number of inspections that took place? Couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that other countries also have intelligence assets that would immediately come forward and point out the fact that the evidence was planted? That probably never clicked for you because you believe the United States lives in a vacuum and that they are the only country with the power or capability to have intelligence assets.

Its funny really. Seems like its popular to say that Bush lied....the whole world believes it already because of the 'spin' the media has used to turn 'intelligence failure' into 'Bush lied - people died.'

Spin? Are you kidding me? The media treated Bush and Cheney like rockstars for the majority of their tenure in office. Almost every media chain in the country fell into lockstep behind the President and assisted in forwarding his agenda. It was brilliant and almost worked.

To make this judgment you must look at the zeitgeist as a whole and appreciate the level of manipulation that has taken place. It truly is an amazing piece of work. From the patriotic bluster and propaganda to the echo-chamber sloganeering, it has been a magnificent job of perception management. From the brilliant job at shifting the general perception of the media, to the deregulation of ownership rules, to the development of new media sources, to the development of subversive campus “thought police”, the whole game has been brilliantly executed. The only problem in what took place was the generation of free thinkers that couldn’t be coerced into swallowing every single thing told to them in the media. That is slowly changing though, as a new generation is being indoctrinated through the new media, and they will so assume the seat of power making another crack at this inevitable. In the future no one will dare question the motives or actions of the executive, because you’ve been condition to not to. The President doesn’t lie, unless he’s a Democrat and there’s cum stains on a dress.

Yet, every single report dedicated to finding out that exact so-called 'lie'...has ONLY talked about a massive intelligence failure.

That’s the American political way. You don’t point fingers at the office of the President, especially if your agency needs more funding, which the President controls.

Nothing has been documented about Bush 'lying'......except for those 'insiders'....who suddenly come out and write books telling the whole world how Bush forced the intelligence community to generate evidence that would prove Saddam had WMD. Yet, the real sources....those who investigated the WHOLE fiasco, never said anything about that.

Really? What of Hans Blix? What of Scott Ritter? What of Richard Clarke? What of George Tenet? These were the guys that were right in the middle of the whole thing, they investigated the whole fiasco, they lived the whole mess, and they have come out and outlined where the Administration has lied. Not good enough for you though. No, you’re not going to believe anything until Dubya holds you in his lap and tells you face-to-face that he lied and cooked the books.

So who are we going to believe? Insiders who take advantage of popular opinion and write books? Or a Senate Intelligence Committee who gathered ALL the evidence available and came to a different conclusion?

The Senate Intelligence Committee Report and the Silberman-Robb Committee Report both pointed out the failings of the system. That is what their job is to do. Look at the institutions and find flaws in the systemic processes that are used to gather and process intelligence. They did not name names because that is not their job. As well, the President and Vice President REFUSED to answers questions under oath or have their statements transcribed, which means they can not be used in identifying any wrong doing. So even if they wanted to name the Administration directly as lying, they could not, as if falls outside of their mandate and the commentary from the executive not examined.

Lying is a pretty big demeanor...and by theory, it should be sufficient groups to impeach a President. If Bush did lie....don't you think the Democrats would push the impeachment process? There is a reason the majority of them are staying away from that. And I firmly believe it is because they failed the American people as well.

The reason they refuse to impeach are pretty obvious and they are all political. Having Bush in office for the remainder of his term pretty well guarantees the Democrats an easy ride in the election this fall. If they impeached they would have to take over this mess and be responsible for making changes in a very short time frame, or feel the wrath of the electorate come the second Tuesday in November. It’s better to let Dubya twist in the wind and try and clean up the mess when you have an actual mandate from the voters, not from the courts.