[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

So the Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament) isn't meant to be taken as a way to follow God? I'm sure the Jews of the world would take offense to that comment.

They can take offense all they want. Creationism has been disproven, and even before it was, the logistics of two people was not sound, and the Bible itself prohibits brothers and sisters from having intercourse. If creation was literal, brothers and sisters would have had to at some point, no? Genesis was a way to explain the universe to people thousands of years ago. It could have still been a divine explanation, written in a way that one would attempt to explain something very complex to a toddler... who knows?

And what moral lessons are we supposed to learn from the Old Testament? That God is a genocidal monster who on numerous occasions murdered thousands of innocent children? That it is better to freely offer a woman to be gang-raped by a mob than to allow homosexual acts to be committed? That if a woman cannot find a husband, she should get her father drunk, seduce him, and then become impregnated by him?

The Old Testament is a tricky subject that I'll admit I didn't learn a whole lot about it when I studied theology in University. However, one theory is the Old Testament was meant to frighten people into adhering to a responsible code. To believe this line of thinking is to believe in a God who can make errors. This tact changed to one of openness and love in the New Testament.



And how is that different from the millions of evangelical Christians who make it their life's mission to "save" non-believers?

I don't speak for evangelical christians. Personally, as a Catholic, I think many pervert Christian theology for their own gain or simply out of ignorance. To compare the Roman Catholic Church to Jehovah's Witnesses is as insulting as calling a Chinese man Japanese. There is a huge difference.

You're quite wrong on that point. If that was the case, then Christianity could exist in the privacy of homes and churches and atheists wouldn't care one iota what they believed. It's because Christians try to push their views on us that we're compelled to push back. Every atheist I've ever met would be more than content if Christians just left us alone and kept their beliefs and moralty to themselves, rather than try to force it on society at large.

It does exist in the privacy of homes and churches... and schools. Mainstream Christianity forces itself on no one. I mean, Christmas and Easter are mainstream Christianity's most sacred occasions, and yet they don't force the religious aspect... they might say they're irritated, but that's about it.



Ok, if the Bible isn't meant to be literal, then does God really exist and did he create the universe? Did Moses really part the Red Sea? Did Jesus really die on the cross and then ressurrect from the dead three days later? What parts are a retelling of actual historical events and what parts are merely allegory? How do you know?

I don't know... neither do you. Does God exist? Maybe, but unless you can definitively prove he doesn't, he may as well. Did Moses part the Red Sea? Likely not. It was probably a simple explanation for a natural event, or a metaphor for crossing out of slavery to salvation. Did Jesus die on the cross? Well, there are some historical pieces that point to someone loosely resembling Jesus dying on the Cross. Did he rise? Maybe. There's a reason its called faith. There is a finite amount of information one way or the other. The majority of the New Testament is meant as stories (perhaps based on real events) but written so well as to provide different meanings to different people with a few overriding beliefs and values for people.