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Originally Posted by Azure
You seem to think that because YOU are making great gains, WITHOUT the use of supplements, everyone else should be able to do the same thing.
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When did I say that?
You said you were making gains with supplements. I said I was without them, and that it means nothing, because if you put in the work you will achieve goals, supplements or not.
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Originally Posted by Azure
As I'm sure you know, each person is different, each lifestyle is different, and for people associated with office work where it is VERY difficult to find healthy food, HIGH in protein....the shake CAN help.
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I'm not going to argue about how much protein any one person has in their diet. I'm not going to argue that protein shakes have protein. It's a matter of you're better off changing your diet to increase your protein intake,
if you know for a fact you need more. I quoted literature written by professionals saying athletes should change their diet, and not take protein supplements. I'm going to go with the professionals.
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Originally Posted by Azure
I eat healthy, I 'try' to get enough protein from food sources....but over 50% of the time that is impossible to achieve.
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Protein isn't just from meats. Protein is everywhere. There's protein in fruit. I don't know how you came to the conclusion you need more protein, but I hope it wasn't just from reading labels. Consult a nutritionist about these things!
Just like not enough protein isn't good, neither is excess. I hope you realize that.
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Originally Posted by Azure
Nice to see you avoid my entire post. I never said anything about substituting for a healthy diet. I merely pointed out how a protein shake CAN help.
Perhaps you should address the contents of my post. But then again, you can't....because that would be over-stepping your limit and admitting that protein shakes can work.
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I don't know where this is coming from, but I'm trying to consult all of your points. Most of the things I've been saying are generalizations. I don't mean you do or do not do these things, nor do I mean anyone else in particular.
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Originally Posted by Azure
Has anyone here said that they started using supplements because some weight jockey at their gym told them about it? No. So why don't you quit stereotyping and shut the hell up about what kind of 'crap' product people are putting into their body?
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Again, I'm generalizing. I know many people who start using supplements because some random weight lifter guy told them about it.
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Originally Posted by Azure
But Creatine has been around a long time. I've talked to 'many' certified fitness trainers who advocate its use. It is a 100% natural supplement, something our 'own' body produces. So quit generalizing.
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There's aspects, like how it causes muscles to retain water, that are potentially dangerous. Here's what Kybosh said:
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Originally Posted by Kybosh
I'm on the fence about creatine. I don't take it or any other supplements and just try my best to eat as well as I can. Store bought creatine is chemically the same as that which is produced in the body. I'm not sure if orally ingested creatine metabolizes in the same way though. One of my concerns with all these nitrogenous supplements is the extra stress that might be placed on the liver and kidneys over time. Another thing is that these supplements are not subject to the same scrutiny that pharmaceuticals are. Just because it is naturally produced in the body doesn't mean it is ok for you to ingest.
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He makes some fine points.
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Originally Posted by Azure
Also, can you cite your sources that tell you that Creatine does not increase energy levels, strength, endurance and recovery rates?
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I said Creatine increases energy levels of the Creatine Phosphate energy system. This system provides the muscles with ATP within the first 10 ish seconds of high-intensity exercise. Here's the textbook:
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Originally Posted by Howley & Franks, 2007
It is unclear if this extra weight (referring to that caused by water retention) could impede, rather than enhance, performance in weight-bearing activities...
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It does not mention anything about strength, endurance or recovery rates. I can only assume they are unaffected.
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Originally Posted by Azure
Who said anything about a sugar pill?
What the hell does it have to do with this thread?
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I was alluding to the fact that Creatine is, in my opinion, just a placebo.