[Agamemnon]

Socialism is based around the idea that individual rights should be sacrificed to ensure `common good.` If violating individual rights is not criminal I don’t know what is.

People are put into prison every day, violating their 'right to freedom'. Violation of individual rights 'sacrificed' for the common good happen all the time. Everyone has the right to freedom, but, in clear and obvious circumstances, those rights can be 'violated'. You may think this is criminal, I call it justice.

Really? Care to elaborate?

Sure. I've been to the Libertarian home page, and know a couple of people who espouse the philosophy. The problem with your presentation of it is you dont' bother to connect the philosophy with reality.

The reality is, the world is impovershed, suffering and violence are rampant, and selfishness is a way of life. Is that a good way to live? Probably not. Should things be changed? Absolutely. The issue here is that you dont' provide 'practical' opinions on almost any subject. You pointed out recently that some kids were being educated poorly in public schools, your solution? Abolish public education. That's not exactly a 'practical' idea to the problem. A reasonable Libertarian would pose a reasonable solution. You tend to find a problem with the system, and then demand its destruction. Not viable, not practical, and not adding to debate. You sound as unrealistic as a communist might, demanding worker's councils and universal healthcare/pension/social security for every human on earth. Unrealistic and impossible, and not adding to discussion at all.

This would be much better suited to a philosophy debate, as opposed to anything resembling the 'real world' or political science.

QUOTE
Sammie said "The Liberal Party... believe Communism is a right-wing conspiracy".
You're changing what he said, and then explaining it.


I thought that’s what he tried to say. If not, then that’s what I am saying.

Communism as a 'right-wing' conspiracy is inherently false and wrong. Communism is left-wing, and you'd be hard pressed to prove that it is, in fact, a right-wing conspiracy. I have no idea why I'm even still presenting this, it should be obvious to a Grade 9 Social Studies student.

Nowhere have you proved those laborers are being exploited. Second, no one gives them better working environment than the factory they currently work for does. Otherwise they would quit and work for someone else. Why don’t you boycott companies which don’t invest in poor countries at all and don’t pay laborers 10 dollars per hour? Nobody pays those laborers more than their current company (i.e. Nike) yet you slay Nike. Why?

The obvious problem with the idea that 'because Nike employs impovershed 3rd world people, it is good' is that it seems to assume that all of these people were living in a state of misery and poverty until we (Nike and TNC's) came along and lifted them out of their mud-hut lifestyles into the wonderful and glamorous world of hard labour. I'd suggest the international economic community goes a long way to ensure poverty exists in these regions, precisely to keep labour costs low and profits high. Investing in poor countries does not _have_ to = working them 12-16 hours a day for less than a buck an hour, forcing them to work without pay if they don't achieve quotas, giving them _zero_ ability to negotiate _anything_ with their employers (safe work environment, free from harrassement, etc.) Nike posts fairly huge revenues, and decent profits. Is it right to make large profits while working labourers over 12 hours a day? I'm sure if you lifted your fingers for two seconds and looked around, you'd find _hundreds_ of examples of labour exploitation. Of course, because they call it 'exploitation', these examples are immediately dismissed as false, as a matter of course, I assume.

It sounds like you think Nike is god's gift to the developing world. I doubt we'll find consensus on this issue in a thousand years.

The 'proof' I presented as to 'exploitation' is in the quote of the Mexican worker above, and in the links I provided.