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jammies · 10-25-2007, 08:16 PM

Knowledge is not fact, knowledge is based on facts, which is why it is never certain - if your facts are wrong, what you know is wrong. This is counter-intuitive but nevertheless correct; all knowledge is provisional and subject to revision, because it is based on what has been found to be true, which is not necessarily the same as what is actually true.

Belief, however, does not base itself on what has been found to be true, but rather the truth is based upon what is believed. It is the opposite of knowledge in every way - one proceeds from fact to conclusion, the other proceeds from conclusion to fact.

I can't speak for other atheists, but I personally KNOW there is no god, I do not BELIEVE there is no god. My reasoning is set out as follows:

There can be no such thing as a natural god, for a god whose powers are limited to the physical realm is not a god at all.

The supernatural can be defined as what is inexplicable by science. We have encountered no physical phenomenon that is not explicable by science. Therefore the supernatural is impossible.

If there is no possibility of the supernatural, there is no possibility of god.

This is the difference between knowledge and faith; I KNOW there is no god because the supernatural not only is unlikely, it is impossible. I don't believe this - I know it. This doesn't mean I can't be wrong if evidence to the contrary comes into existence; if science came up against the truly inexplicable, the basis of my knowledge would be undermined and I what I know would have to change.

It is possible to be a theist that knows there is a god; all that it takes is to find some gap in science that can only be explained by the supernatural. Such knowledge would be incomplete and mistaken, in my view, but that does not mean it is a matter of faith.

The majority of theists, however, are subscribers to belief, not knowledge. There are a minority of atheists of the same, lamentable mindset. Zealots do not come from those who know - they come from those who believe. It behooves both theists, agnostics and atheists to increase the sum of knowledge in the world and encourage those who merely believe to transcend that limiting horizon.

10-25-2007, 08:16 PM	#121
jammies Basement Chicken Choker Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants. Exp:	Knowledge is not fact, knowledge is based on facts, which is why it is never certain - if your facts are wrong, what you know is wrong. This is counter-intuitive but nevertheless correct; all knowledge is provisional and subject to revision, because it is based on what has been found to be true, which is not necessarily the same as what is actually true. Belief, however, does not base itself on what has been found to be true, but rather the truth is based upon what is believed. It is the opposite of knowledge in every way - one proceeds from fact to conclusion, the other proceeds from conclusion to fact. I can't speak for other atheists, but I personally KNOW there is no god, I do not BELIEVE there is no god. My reasoning is set out as follows: There can be no such thing as a natural god, for a god whose powers are limited to the physical realm is not a god at all. The supernatural can be defined as what is inexplicable by science. We have encountered no physical phenomenon that is not explicable by science. Therefore the supernatural is impossible. If there is no possibility of the supernatural, there is no possibility of god. This is the difference between knowledge and faith; I KNOW there is no god because the supernatural not only is unlikely, it is impossible. I don't believe this - I know it. This doesn't mean I can't be wrong if evidence to the contrary comes into existence; if science came up against the truly inexplicable, the basis of my knowledge would be undermined and I what I know would have to change. It is possible to be a theist that knows there is a god; all that it takes is to find some gap in science that can only be explained by the supernatural. Such knowledge would be incomplete and mistaken, in my view, but that does not mean it is a matter of faith. The majority of theists, however, are subscribers to belief, not knowledge. There are a minority of atheists of the same, lamentable mindset. Zealots do not come from those who know - they come from those who believe. It behooves both theists, agnostics and atheists to increase the sum of knowledge in the world and encourage those who merely believe to transcend that limiting horizon.