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Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

What I experienced was real...not my subconsious mind moving the marker. This is not my only experience with the supernatural. My parents best friends lived on a farm that was haunted. If you stayed there one night you would believe to. But really, no matter what I say it isn't true as you seem to know everything when it comes to religon, quantum physics and the supernatural.

So tell me how do you know the difference between the ideomotor effect and ghosts moving your hands? Your mind is fallible, easily tricked (as are all minds).

Lol, bitter much? I don't claim to know everything, but I try to look at things with a skeptical eye, while you seem to want to believe everything. I show one thing that is an alternative explanation for your experience with the ouija board (therefore making it not proof of the supernatural), and you're throwing insults. Try looking at things objectively if you want to discuss them.

They are the same.

They aren't the same at all. There is evidence of life and the conditions for life are likely repeated across many worlds, so more life is a reasonable expectation. There is no evidence of ghosts, so it isn't reasonable to expect them just based on the "why can't there be" argument.

I'm not saying this is evidence that there aren't ghosts, just saying it can't be used as evidence there are ghosts.

Do you see the difference in the logic? I'm not sure how else to explain it.

And since you are so into quantum physics you would know that there are an infinate amount of alternate realities. If that is possible it is not far off to think that there are other life forms in different dimensions or other plains of existence.

Multiple parallel universes is one proposed idea to deal with some observed things, but it's not an accepted view of reality yet, there's no direct evidence for it.

See now you've changed the proposed question. A life form in a different dimension isn't a ghost (spirit of a departed person). Maybe the things people see as ghosts are life forms in parallel universes coming through somehow, and that should be eventually testable within the realms of science. But to this point there's been no real evidence, so it's not reasonable to say that's the case yet.

Really? Thanks, yet you have such a strong belief in Hawkings Raditation, something that may never be seen or proven. Interesting.

Who said I believed in hawking radiation? I sure didn't. You're the one who's said that asking why something can't exists supports the existence of that thing.

However to compare hawking radiation and ghosts is dumb, one is predicted by math and theories that have been proven to be accurate so far, while the other exists only in the minds of humans, and we know those minds aren't accurate indications of reality.

I agree 100%, and I think you and I are more on the same page than it might appear on this forum. However, I have had experiences in my life that make me believe in these things.

The difference is you put faith in your experiences, while I understand my experiences aren't a reliable source of evidence.

The ouija board is a perfect example.. You say it something that supports your believe in a spiritual realm, but I provide evidence that your experience could have just as easily been caused by your own mind, and provide a way test if it one or the other. A scientific response to losing evidence that supports a theory is to question the theory. Ouija board moving could be caused ideomotor effect, so it can't be used to support belief in a spirit world. But does that weaken your belief in a spirit world? I doubt it. That's called confirmation bias, using evidence to support your position and disregarding evidence that doesn't.

Seriously, read the book that evman150 posted about, "The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark", it will do a far better job explaining what I'm trying to say in a way I never could.