[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

In order for your arguement to hold water, Canada would have to have more unskilled jobs available that every single European country, which just simply isn't true. The fact still remains that there are closer, easier and more viable options for the Eastern European immigrant. You've still done nothing to disprove this in my eyes. I really see nothing attracting unskilled Eastern European labour to Canada. It's far away, expensive to get to, and there's a risk of getting caught trying to work illegally in the country.

Canada doesn't have to have more available jobs than all of Europe combined to have these people wish to come to Canada. You see no attraction for unskiled workers in Canada? How about the fact that unskilled workers in Poland for example are making a few hundred dollars a month......they could be making 5-10 times as much in Canada. That is not insentive enough? As far as being expensive.....$400 for a ticket from London to Calgary. Not that expensive.

We're not debating the social programs of European countries here, we're talking about the programs being more appealing to immigrants who (in your arguement anyway) are like parasites seting their sights on social systems to milk for all they're worth. If this we're the case as you claim, why wouldn't they all just bee-line for Sweden and Denmark? If they're in the EU already, they can freely cross those borders without even a passport check.

Most EU countries have certain residency requirements inorder to obtain social benifits. I don't know what kind of security features there are to prevent abuse. But since income tax in Sweden can be as high as 55% I can see why they would need it so high. To pay for all the social programs for its citizens and non-residents.

Thanks for finally addressing my question directly. I agree it would be slightly easier for them to get into Canada,

Slightly?

Further, you are wrong when you say they have the same rights as a Canadian. There's no way for them to work (legally) and collect social benefits unless they are a Canadian citizen.

They are afforded the same charter rights as every Canadian other than the citizenship rights. Yes, they need a work permit to work illegally, but that is my point, they won't have one, ergo, they won't be paying into the social net. But....healthcare cannot be refused and many times these people use others healthcare cards to obtain services. There is no real way for healthcare professionals to verify who the owner of a health card is. (atleast in alberta. No picture no security features.) If they do claim refugee status they get free healthcare. Now I can't find anything right now but I have seen a few reports about the cost of unpaid healthcare costs. One showed that last year BC was out 10 million dollars because foreign nationals receiving healthcare services and then not paying. Now this wuould also include legal visitors to Canada.

No one from the countries in questions can claim refugeee status, so its totally unrelated. To be honest, to me it just sounds like more disdain for immigrants and refugees. I suggest we stick to the original topic.

Ummm....yes they can. There is not one country in the world that Canada would not entertain an application for protection from. Including Germany, Poland, UK or even the US. So I am not sure who told you they couldn't.

Like I said before, this seems crazy to me. Its difficult and expensive to immigrate once, why would anyone want to do it twice? Especially people you're classifiying as 'unskilled labour', who likely don't have much money to begin with. I'd really, really like to see some proof of your claim.

I was talking about Refugees not legal immigrants. Why would they go through the hasle to do it twice? Many reasons. Family in Canada, no jobs in their home country, not integrating into that country. Why do you think there were those riots in France last year? Because the immigrants/refugees could not find work and could not better there lives (as they saw it).

Wrong. I think you're confused as to the meaning of immigration. Immigration is a resettlement in another country, not just movement of people into another country temporarily. By your definition, if I take a vacation in France, I'm immigrating there. This is wrong. These countries just want to be able to enter Canada without a visa, not permanently move here. There's a big difference.

No, you are the one taking the word literally. Immigration Canada deals with every foreign national to Canada regardless if they are visiting, working, studing or permanently immigrating. They all fall under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.