View Full Version : Does the Luge continue in Van? How about Bobsled
Kjesse
02-12-2010, 06:58 PM
After the accident, training was suspended for the day.
Having seen the video of the crash, I think the track is very unsafe.
So what do they do? Try to put up plexiglass walls in a haphazard and rushed fashion without time to properly test the "fix"?
Or do they just cancel the events?
After this, the athletes are going to be jittery going down the track (and the smart ones might even refuse to race), all news coverage of the event will focus on how the athletes handle the "death turn", and there will be people closing their eyes in front of their televisions when that turn comes up. It will turn into a bit of a freak show-- because of this, if they run it, I could see the luge being the highest TV draw of these Olympics.
And if there is no short term "fix", there's no way anyone should be allowed to go down that track.
For these reasons, and out of respect for Kumaritashvili, I think they should cancel the luge, and maybe the bobsled. I feel bad for the athletes this would affect, but at least they'll live to race another day.
Neither will be cancelled. If they make a change at all, it'll be they'll move the start lower down on the hill to cut down on the speed.
PowerPlayoffs06
02-12-2010, 07:06 PM
They're not cancelling anything. The Georgian team has already issued a statement that they will be going ahead with the event and will dedicate their performance to their fallen comrade.
Nobody could have foreseen a death on the track, but I think with the amount of bad feedback there has been going back to at least December 2008 there was an obvious foreseeable probability for a serious injury to occur. There will be some tough questions surrounding this, for sure, but for now it seems as if everything will be going ahead as planned.
valo403
02-12-2010, 07:09 PM
Neither will be cancelled. If they make a change at all, it'll be they'll move the start lower down on the hill to cut down on the speed.
You can't just do that, it's not skiing, the starting area is a separate ramp onto the track. There's likely a junior ramp much lower on the track, but starting from there would make the competition a farce.
SteveToms
02-12-2010, 07:36 PM
It's already been stated, you can add frost to the track slowing it down.
HotHotHeat
02-12-2010, 07:46 PM
You can't just do that, it's not skiing, the starting area is a separate ramp onto the track. There's likely a junior ramp much lower on the track, but starting from there would make the competition a farce.
Isn't the women's start gate lower? Maybe they'll just use that for everyone. I've heard the thing about frost as well.
It's already been stated, you can add frost to the track slowing it down.
This. They can slow it down to about 136 instead of 145 which is a huge difference.
valo403
02-12-2010, 07:53 PM
Isn't the women's start gate lower? Maybe they'll just use that for everyone. I've heard the thing about frost as well.
I don't believe so, it's not in Calgary at least. Not sure that would help much anyways, the women were getting thrown all over the place too. One slammed into the top of the same wall the Georgian went over.
Frequitude
02-12-2010, 10:44 PM
This. They can slow it down to about 136 instead of 145 which is a huge difference.
Wouldn't the latter sliders have an advantage?
Resolute 14
02-12-2010, 10:47 PM
Wouldn't the latter sliders have an advantage?
Possibly, but better to finish tenth and get to the bottom safely than to not finish at all and end up in hospital.
Wouldn't the latter sliders have an advantage?
It's all artificial I'm sure they can get it at a pretty even temp and frost ratio.
valo403
02-12-2010, 10:55 PM
There's really only a dozen guys with a legit shot at winning, if you set them off one after another you could probably keep the conditions relatively equal for all of the contenders.
Madman
02-12-2010, 11:07 PM
This. They can slow it down to about 136 instead of 145 which is a huge difference.
Not against a giant metal pole its not.
flamesfan6
02-12-2010, 11:26 PM
Not against a giant metal pole its not.
itll help the driver control his ride better, preventing the loss of control at the corner.
valo403
02-12-2010, 11:35 PM
itll help the driver control his ride better, preventing the loss of control at the corner.
A small reduction in speed would also cause a reduction in G forces, making the flying into the air after a crash significantly less severe. That's the difference between flying into the wall and flying over the wall.
Not against a giant metal pole its not.
That 9kph could be the difference in flying down the track or flying over the wall. Maye not seem like a lot but it is.
6pm MT is when the Luge is suppose to resume. I'll be very interested to see what VANOC and the IOC do in regards to this.
valo403
02-13-2010, 12:20 AM
Joint VANOC - FIL Statement on Men’s Luge Competition
Feb 12, 2010
The International Luge Federation is deeply saddened by the death of the Georgian athlete, Nodar Kumaritashvili, member of our Luge Family, who was fatally injured during the final training session in the last corner of the track at the Whistler Sliding Centre on Friday morning.
The Coroners Service of British Columbia, responsible for the investigation of all sudden deaths, together with the RCMP, concluded their on-scene investigations on the track and transferred the decision to FIL when the track can be re-opened. The FIL, through its technical officials, further investigated into the cause of this tragic incident. Based on a physical inspection of the track and a thorough review of the tapes they have concluded the following:
It appears after a routine run, the athlete came late out of curve 15 and did not compensate properly to make correct entrance into curve 16. This resulted in a late entrance into curve 16 and although the athlete worked to correct the problem he eventually lost control of the sled resulting in the tragic accident. The technical officials of the FIL were able to retrace the path of the athlete and concluded there was no indication that the accident was caused by deficiencies in the track.
Based on these findings the race director, in consultation with the FIL, made the decision to reopen the track following a raising of the walls at the exit of curve 16 and a change in the ice profile. This was done as a preventative measure, in order to avoid that such an extremely exceptional accident could occur again.
The FIL will resume men´s training Saturday morning with two full training runs prior to the competition taking place as scheduled at 17h00.
dj_patm
02-13-2010, 12:46 AM
So we'll keep the poles?
Sweet that roof looks wicked, It just wouldn't be the same with out it
... :bag:
BloodFetish
02-13-2010, 12:58 AM
To sum up that official statement...
Not making a correct entrance into curve 16 = guaranteed accident possibly involving death, but this is not due to deficiencies in the track.
That's a head scratcher. I'm very relieved they're taking those metal posts out of play, but unless the change in ice profile has a noticable effect I expect lugers will continue to spill in that curve but hopefully not with the same tragic results.
valo403
02-13-2010, 01:00 AM
So we'll keep the poles?
Sweet that roof looks wicked, It just wouldn't be the same with out it
... :bag:
You were expecting them to go in with blow torches? The poles aren't the issue, keeping athletes from leaving the track is the issue.
dj_patm
02-13-2010, 01:00 AM
To sum up that official statement...
Not making a correct entrance into curve 16 = guaranteed accident possibly involving death, but this is not due to deficiencies in the track.
That's a head scratcher. I'm very relieved they're taking those metal posts out of play, but unless the change in ice profile has a noticable effect I expect lugers will continue to spill in that curve but hopefully not with the same tragic results.
No this will boost the Luge ratings x20
dj_patm
02-13-2010, 01:01 AM
You were expecting them to go in with blow torches? The poles aren't the issue, keeping athletes from leaving the track is the issue.
That is true but honestly you'd think they'd remove them. Just seems like a logical thing to do...
valo403
02-13-2010, 01:09 AM
That is true but honestly you'd think they'd remove them. Just seems like a logical thing to do...
No, actually it doesn't.
Removing = dismantling a massive steel structure overnight.
Placing barriers = logical thing to do
Not making a correct entrance into curve 16 = guaranteed accident possibly involving death, but this is not due to deficiencies in the track.
That's a head scratcher.
How is it a head scratcher?
You go into the most difficult corner on the course wrong, you're more than likely going to spill. Every single track in the world is the exact same.
dj_patm
02-13-2010, 01:25 AM
How is it a head scratcher?
You go into the most difficult corner on the course wrong, you're more than likely going to spill. Every single track in the world is the exact same.
Usually most tracks in the world are designed so that after falling you don't fly into a steel pole.
But hey, look at our opening ceremonies! What do you expect!?
valo403
02-13-2010, 01:28 AM
Usually most tracks in the world are designed so that after falling you don't fly into a steel pole.
But hey, look at our opening ceremonies! What do you expect!?
Why do you deem it necessary to take a good post and then run it by commenting like a total idiot? C'mon man, stop digging your grave.
dj_patm
02-13-2010, 01:30 AM
Why do you deem it necessary to take a good post and then run it by commenting like a total idiot? C'mon man, stop digging your grave.
Am I wrong?
Do people design tracks so that when something goes wrong, it goes as bad as possible? Cause it couldn't go any worse.
FireFly
02-13-2010, 01:33 AM
Usually most tracks in the world are designed so that after falling you don't fly into a steel pole.
But hey, look at our opening ceremonies! What do you expect!?
Usually elite athletes can better handle their sleds. He was well out of the turn before he went over the edge.
CokeMachineGlow
02-13-2010, 01:37 AM
It's a hard video to watch. But I can't help but agree some what with dj patm. truth be told, however, if you go flying off your sled at 100km really there's no good place to land except in a huge stack of pillows...
dj_patm
02-13-2010, 01:38 AM
Usually elite athletes can better handle their sleds. He was well out of the turn before he went over the edge.
He's not the only one. Wasn't there like 5 or 6 athletes that had close calls, one of them being a perennial medalist?
The track is fundamentally flawed and they're not moving it or making significant changes too save money. Thats it.
We'll see what happens. If another serious accident happens on that track, I'm pretty sure you can write off the reputation of these games...
malcolmk14
02-13-2010, 01:39 AM
He's not the only one. Wasn't there like 5 or 6 athletes that had close calls, one of them being a perennial medalist?
The track is fundamentally flawed and they're not moving it or making significant changes too save money. Thats it.
We'll see what happens. If another serious accident happens on that track, I'm pretty sure you can write off the reputation of these games...
Yeah, and what if nothing happens? What if everyone finishes the track and no one else gets seriously injured? Will you shut the $*#@ up finally?
FireFly
02-13-2010, 01:42 AM
He's not the only one. Wasn't there like 5 or 6 athletes that had close calls, one of them being a perennial medalist?
The track is fundamentally flawed and they're not moving it or making significant changes too save money. Thats it.
We'll see what happens. If another serious accident happens on that track, I'm pretty sure you can write off the reputation of these games...
Ugh. Not all on the same corner. And none of them were about to go flying out of the track like that.
What you should do once in a while is listen instead of talk. Not every post needs a comment. Not every thought needs to be written down.
Yes, a lot of persons have had accidents on that track. It's a dangerous track in a dangerous sport. It happens. Accidents in luge happen quite frequently actually. Remember the Jamaican bobsled team in Calgary?
If Canada doesn't win Gold in men's hockey you can 'write off the reputation of these games' too... whatever that means.
dj_patm
02-13-2010, 01:43 AM
Yeah, and what if nothing happens? What if everyone finishes the track and no one else gets seriously injured? Will you shut the $*#@ up finally?
No. Cause a man lost his life already due to the fact that the engineers didn't think that the walls should be higher.
dj_patm
02-13-2010, 01:44 AM
Yes, a lot of persons have had accidents on that track. It's a dangerous track in a dangerous sport. It happens. Accidents in luge happen quite frequently actually. Remember the Jamaican bobsled team in Calgary?
Nope. Because they didn't fly off the track and hit a metal post and die.
Wierd hey? They screwed up, going really fast and they DIDN'T die.
FireFly
02-13-2010, 01:50 AM
Ignore is my new favorite. I feel better already. It's like I'm talking to myself now in a big white empty room. I mean, it was kinda like that before, but this is different. It echos the intelligence and I can no longer hear the inane musings of others.
*sigh*
CokeMachineGlow
02-13-2010, 01:50 AM
I think we can all agree that if another luger dies on this track during these games it will be a black mark on Canadian sport we may never live down
dj_patm
02-13-2010, 01:51 AM
Ignore is my new favorite. I feel better already. It's like I'm talking to myself now in a big white empty room. I mean, it was kinda like that before, but this is different. It echos the intelligence and I can no longer hear the inane musings of others.
*sigh*
Ignore is the new Touche... Its another means of saying "I'm an idiot and you were right."
Regardless of him not handling the corner right, there should be no part of the track where screwing up causes you to leave the track, let alone leave the track into a row of squared off metal pillars.
CokeMachineGlow
02-13-2010, 02:20 AM
Regardless of him not handling the corner right, there should be no part of the track where screwing up causes you to leave the track, let alone leave the track into a row of squared off metal pillars.
yeah this. this isn't mutant league football, where falling out of bounds sends you flying off into the abyss of the universe
Flamesoholic
02-13-2010, 03:34 AM
Please excuse my ignorance on the subject but what does "a change in the ice profile" mean?
Hack&Lube
02-13-2010, 03:44 AM
Please excuse my ignorance on the subject but what does "a change in the ice profile" mean?
I think it means they put a layer of frost on the ice to slow people down?
valo403
02-13-2010, 08:31 AM
Am I wrong?
Do people design tracks so that when something goes wrong, it goes as bad as possible? Cause it couldn't go any worse.
It's the second part of your post that makes you look stupid.
dissentowner
02-13-2010, 08:34 AM
It's the second part of your post that makes you look stupid.
No, he managed that many posts ago.
Ducay
02-13-2010, 08:43 AM
Regardless of him not handling the corner right, there should be no part of the track where screwing up causes you to leave the track, let alone leave the track into a row of squared off metal pillars.
Exactly! This is what people need to understand. Its a luge track, the guy lost contol (happends everywhere), but losing control should not have such grave consequences.
Its like lining the downhill boundries with metal poles. Sure, the athlete should never come near them, but guess what? Loss of control + momentum = You going places that you don't want to
Also bear in mind this track is going to have kids and regular athletes going down it once the Olympics are over.
FireFly
02-13-2010, 09:09 AM
Exactly! This is what people need to understand. Its a luge track, the guy lost contol (happends everywhere), but losing control should not have such grave consequences.
Its like lining the downhill boundries with metal poles. Sure, the athlete should never come near them, but guess what? Loss of control + momentum = You going places that you don't want to
Also bear in mind this track is going to have kids and regular athletes going down it once the Olympics are over.
You don't think they've gone down it already? It's been open for 3 years...
Yamer
02-13-2010, 09:55 AM
While I do believe that the track was probably designed with a little short-sightedness (maybe a lot), it would be very tough to recreate that accident. I mean, it just seems that he hit and flipped at just the right time to send him over the wall.
I think the track simply demands far too much skill, probably no more than a handful of athletes could properly handle. From what I understand they had told the Sochi committee to NOT try and match the Whistler Sliding Center's speeds.
On a side note, it seems the dj may have spun his last tune.
No. Cause a man lost his life already due to the fact that the engineers didn't think that the walls should be higher.
Neither did the guys that race it everyday, the organization that governs Luge, the IOC, the coaches, or anyone else. People throw out it being the fastest, and most dangerous track in the world when it was noted it actually isn't, that was more of a 'pump it up' type promo for the track. No one ever thought this could happen and no one has ever seen it happen.
valo403
02-13-2010, 11:29 AM
Neither did the guys that race it everyday, the organization that governs Luge, the IOC, the coaches, or anyone else. People throw out it being the fastest, and most dangerous track in the world when it was noted it actually isn't, that was more of a 'pump it up' type promo for the track. No one ever thought this could happen and no one has ever seen it happen.
Huh? If this track isn't the fastest and most extreme in the world why have the Sochi organizers been told that they are not to attempt to surpass it? Seems odd.
You have a source for that? I've just honestly never heard that claim anywhere.
transplant99
02-13-2010, 11:36 AM
Something I read a couple hours ago...
"It’s a very rare situation,” three-time Olympic champion and German coach Georg Hackl said.
Shortly before the accident, Hackl said he didn’t believe the Whistler track was unsafe.
“People have the opinion it is dangerous but the track crew does the best it can and they are working hard to make sure the track is in good shape and everyone is safe,” he said. “My opinion is that it’s not any more dangerous than anywhere else.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/luge/news?slug=ap-lug-lugerdies&prov=ap&type=lgns
Huh? If this track isn't the fastest and most extreme in the world why have the Sochi organizers been told that they are not to attempt to surpass it? Seems odd.
You have a source for that? I've just honestly never heard that claim anywhere.
Watching on CTV there was a luge guy there talking about it saying that the words 'most dangerous' and 'fastest in the world' have been thrown out so much about this track when it is just not true.
I didn't make note or write his name down but it was around 8:30am(PT).
“My opinion is that it’s not any more dangerous than anywhere else.”What would a three time Olympic champ and coach know about this track? Rubbish...probably just protecting the IOC and IFL. :rolleyes:
valo403
02-13-2010, 11:46 AM
Watching on CTV there was a luge guy there talking about it saying that the words 'most dangerous' and 'fastest in the world' have been thrown out so much about this track when it is just not true.
I didn't make note or write his name down but it was around 8:30am(PT).
Alright, but it's a fact that it is the fastest in the world. Most dangerous isn't something you can quantify, so ya that claim could very well just be hype. However, there were athletes earlier this week wondering if they were crash test dummies due to the dangerous nature of the track.
Alright, but it's a fact that it is the fastest in the world. Most dangerous isn't something you can quantify, so ya that claim could very well just be hype. However, there were athletes earlier this week wondering if they were crash test dummies due to the dangerous nature of the track.
How long has this track been open? Did they just open it up for the World this week?
dissentowner
02-13-2010, 12:03 PM
How long has this track been open? Did they just open it up for the World this week?
Exactly. Athletes have been using it for over 2 years with no issues. The luge experts say there is nothing unsafe about the track, that is good enough for me.
valo403
02-13-2010, 12:19 PM
How long has this track been open? Did they just open it up for the World this week?
What does that have to do with it being the worlds fastest track or that athletes have been quoted as saying they felt like crash test dummies?
It's on CTV right now and I think I saw some big orange pads on the poles in question.
What does that have to do with it being the worlds fastest track or that athletes have been quoted as saying they felt like crash test dummies?
Aren't crash test dummies usually the first to hit a track or test?
Just because it is a demanding course doesn't mean anything. You still have to know your limits as a person and if you don't you may have to pay the price of whipping out.
If the top lugers and coaches say it's fine and want to race it how it was to start I just don't understand how it is that dangerous. I don't know to me when you have 2 people die in your sport in 50+ years that is pretty good. I'm sure even more people have died from slap shots, should those be banned as well?
I'm just curious what you want out of the organizers and sports in general. Do you seriously expect 100% certainty that no one will ever die?
Like I said before we could have watched those metal beams fly by 100's of times over the next week and I bet no one mentions a peep about them. Only reason we notice them is because someone did the UNTHINKABLE and went flying out of the track for the FIRST TIME EVER in the sport.
valo403
02-13-2010, 12:29 PM
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Luge+death+raises+questions+concerns+about+challen ging+sliding+course/2558024/story.html
After nearly losing control on Thursday, Australia's Hannah Campbell-Pegg said the track was risking her life.
"I think they are pushing it a little too much. To what extent are we just little lemmings that they just throw down a track and we're crash-test dummies? I mean, this is our lives," said Campbell-Pegg.
valo403
02-13-2010, 12:31 PM
Aren't crash test dummies usually the first to hit a track or test?
Just because it is a demanding course doesn't mean anything. You still have to know your limits as a person and if you don't you may have to pay the price of whipping out.
If the top lugers and coaches say it's fine and want to race it how it was to start I just don't understand how it is that dangerous. I don't know to me when you have 2 people die in your sport in 50+ years that is pretty good. I'm sure even more people have died from slap shots, should those be banned as well?
I'm just curious what you want out of the organizers and sports in general. Do you seriously expect 100% certainty that no one will ever die?
Like I said before we could have watched those metal beams fly by 100's of times over the next week and I bet no one mentions a peep about them. Only reason we notice them is because someone did the UNTHINKABLE and went flying out of the track for the FIRST TIME EVER in the sport.
That's just plain false
I answered the rest of your points in the other thread
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Luge+death+raises+questions+concerns+about+challen ging+sliding+course/2558024/story.html
Again this person was ranked 28th out of 34 in World Cup standings last year (31st out of 35 in 2009/10). So what this is saying to me is if you aren't a top athlete you shouldn't be going down this course or pushing 100% down it.
Who would have thought the Olympics would want to push the top athletes in the world?
That's just plain false
I answered the rest of your points in the other thread
Well the experts, coaches and athletes should stop saying that if it is false. Why is the first thing out of peoples mouths. "In all my time I have never seen or heard that happen before".
Downhill Skiing is more dangerous.
Does Kitzbühel have a back eye. WC downhills have had several fatalties and paraysis over the past 10 years and people keep pushing. These are extreme sports and injuries happen. Yes it is a sad event but is it "a black eye" on the olympics? Of course not.
Brick
02-13-2010, 01:01 PM
The show must go on. The athletes know the risks going in.
Weaseltease
02-13-2010, 01:28 PM
An article from the Globe and Mail a week ago, talking about how unusually fast the track is, and also how much g-force it pulls:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/why-this-track-means-fear/article1458556/
CokeMachineGlow
02-13-2010, 02:54 PM
I heard on the fan 960 that the men will start at the womens start of the track. Basically the track was a screw up, and was never supposed to get up to 150+ KM... and this is an admission of that mistake
valo403
02-13-2010, 03:51 PM
Again this person was ranked 28th out of 34 in World Cup standings last year (31st out of 35 in 2009/10). So what this is saying to me is if you aren't a top athlete you shouldn't be going down this course or pushing 100% down it.
Who would have thought the Olympics would want to push the top athletes in the world?
So only 10-12 athletes should compete in the Olympics. What a full on asinine statement.
cheevers
02-13-2010, 04:01 PM
Again this person was ranked 28th out of 34 in World Cup standings last year (31st out of 35 in 2009/10). So what this is saying to me is if you aren't a top athlete you shouldn't be going down this course or pushing 100% down it.
Who would have thought the Olympics would want to push the top athletes in the world?
It seems kinda harsh for the you to be criticising the guy. I mean he was able to make it to the olympics so its not just so joe off the street. He was also only 21, when it seems like alot of the top luger's are older, so who knows of his potential.
Im not a track expert so I can not say if it was poorly designed but the changing of the starting position and trying to increase the safety of the one turn does seem to be an admission that not all is right.
I heard on the fan 960 that the men will start at the womens start of the track. Basically the track was a screw up, and was never supposed to get up to 150+ KM... and this is an admission of that mistake
No it's not.
So only 10-12 athletes should compete in the Olympics. What a full on asinine statement.
Where did I say that?
Putting words into my mouth won't prove your point.
d_phaneuf
02-13-2010, 04:31 PM
on NBC they asked one of the American Lugers about the changes
he said that the course is "kind of boring now, but I guess its for safety"
Peanut
02-13-2010, 04:44 PM
Again this person was ranked 28th out of 34 in World Cup standings last year (31st out of 35 in 2009/10). So what this is saying to me is if you aren't a top athlete you shouldn't be going down this course or pushing 100% down it.
Who would have thought the Olympics would want to push the top athletes in the world?
I don't understand how you are quoting his world ranking as proof that he somehow wasn't qualified for this track. IMO, if someone is world ranked at anything, they're probably pretty damn good and considered a "top athlete" at their sport. It seems a little silly to be arguing that his world ranking is "too low" to be competing all out at the Olympics. Just my opinion.
I don't understand how you are quoting his world ranking as proof that he somehow wasn't qualified for this track. IMO, if someone is world ranked at anything, they're probably pretty damn good and considered a "top athlete" at their sport. It seems a little silly to be arguing that his world ranking is "too low" to be competing all out at the Olympics. Just my opinion, of course.
This person I am talking about is a female luger who was complaining about being crash test dummies and it is likely she feels that way because she doesn't have the same skill even being ranked in the world. This is the the most demanding course ever in luge, it shouldn't be a surprise that some of the lesser or higher ranked lugers are having difficulties. Wouldn't that be the same for every course in every sport in the world?
I just don't think lugers themselves would be complaining about not going off the mens start if they honestly felt like they were in danger and this wasn't more than just a once in 50 years type crash that happened. The track was dangerous, the luger was inexperience and that's recipe for disaster. Not one person warning about this track being fast or dangerous ever mentions turn 16 or the entrance into the finish for being dangerous. It is no one fault, it is just a sequents of unimaginable events.
Gozer
02-13-2010, 08:50 PM
it shouldn't be a surprise that some of the lesser or higher ranked lugers are having difficulties.
:confused:
It is no one fault, it is just a sequents of unimaginable events.
Is it that unimaginable though?
Fastest track ever, fastest sleds ever, most dedicated and fearless athletes ever...140km/hr around a tight corner followed by steel pillars...at what point is it no longer unimaginable?
At some point it can't be the athletes that have invested between five and twenty years of their lives preparing for a single chance at a gold medal that should be expected to establish the boundaries.
Peanut
02-13-2010, 11:12 PM
This person I am talking about is a female luger who was complaining about being crash test dummies and it is likely she feels that way because she doesn't have the same skill even being ranked in the world. This is the the most demanding course ever in luge, it shouldn't be a surprise that some of the lesser or higher ranked lugers are having difficulties. Wouldn't that be the same for every course in every sport in the world?
Okay, so change "him" to "her" in my post. The point still stands... if you're a world ranked luger, you're skilled enough for the Olympic track.
Johnny Canuck
02-13-2010, 11:16 PM
The Canadian luge coach is quoted as saying;
"It was not a track issue. It was a driver error. 100 per cent,"
I would think if anyone, The coach of our team would know about the track, and its supposed unsafe conditions.
Its a sad story, it really is; but I'll take the coach's word for it.
Peanut
02-13-2010, 11:19 PM
Huh. So one (small?) "driver error" mistake means life or death in luge? If that's the case, I guess I don't really want to be watching the luge. I have no desire to see that type of accident again if I can avoid it.
Johnny Canuck
02-13-2010, 11:31 PM
Huh. So one (small?) "driver error" mistake means life or death in luge? If that's the case, I guess I don't really want to be watching the luge. I have no desire to see that type of accident again if I can avoid it.
Yea, Unfortunately thats all it takes in luge. Imo its one of the most dangerous sports in the world, and easily the most dangerous in the Olympics. I was watching the luge today with one eye open.
Heres another excerpt from the Canadian Luge Coach
"Romstad said analysis showed that the run was routine until Kumaritashvili took the wrong driving line into Thunderbird.
"Although he attempted to correct the situation, he shot up into the roof of Curve 16. The angle in which he did so resulted in him experiencing a G-force that literally collapsed his body, rendering it difficult to control the sled.
"Once this happened, he was literally at the mercy of the path of the sled."
When youre in a sport that catapults you to speeds of 140-150 km with nothing but a helmet, youre asking for trouble. Combine that with the G force your body experiences, and I'm just thankful deaths haven't happened more often. Knock on wood.
http://vancouver2010.sympatico.ca/Home/ContentPosting_2010?newsitemid=2305910&feedname=CP_EN_OGAMES&show=True&number=5&showbyline=False&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc&date=False&pagenumber=1
valo403
02-14-2010, 12:36 AM
Yea, Unfortunately thats all it takes in luge. Imo its one of the most dangerous sports in the world, and easily the most dangerous in the Olympics. I was watching the luge today with one eye open.
Heres another excerpt from the Canadian Luge Coach
"Romstad said analysis showed that the run was routine until Kumaritashvili took the wrong driving line into Thunderbird.
"Although he attempted to correct the situation, he shot up into the roof of Curve 16. The angle in which he did so resulted in him experiencing a G-force that literally collapsed his body, rendering it difficult to control the sled.
"Once this happened, he was literally at the mercy of the path of the sled."
When youre in a sport that catapults you to speeds of 140-150 km with nothing but a helmet, youre asking for trouble. Combine that with the G force your body experiences, and I'm just thankful deaths haven't happened more often. Knock on wood.
http://vancouver2010.sympatico.ca/Home/ContentPosting_2010?newsitemid=2305910&feedname=CP_EN_OGAMES&show=True&number=5&showbyline=False&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc&date=False&pagenumber=1
That doesn't make a lick of sense. Luge is inherently dangerous, but small mistakes should never equal death. If that was the case a death in the sport wouldn't be so rare.
Johnny Canuck
02-14-2010, 01:15 AM
That doesn't make a lick of sense. Luge is inherently dangerous, but small mistakes should never equal death. If that was the case a death in the sport wouldn't be so rare.
A Small Error at the wrong time can certainly lead to death, I'm thankful that it is so rare.
"When you are going that fast it just takes one slip and you can have that big mistake,” U.S. (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/usa/;_ylt=Aiss3Rz.vJMzxI0h2XRc_o_nlQY6) doubles luger Christian Niccum (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/usa/christian+niccum/1023803/;_ylt=ApCZ8RWVmz1tYD7X4MDtw3XnlQY6) said Thursday, when asked about track safety. “All of us are very calm going down, but if you start jerking at 90 mph or making quick reactions, that sled will steer. That’s the difference between luge and bobsled and skeleton, we’re riding on a very sharp edge and that sled will go exactly where we tell it to so you better be telling it the right things on the way down"
Now, When you think of how dangerous Luge really is. They go down a track Reaching speeds up to 140-150 kph they also need to maintain a strictly aerodynamic form while at thse speeds all while facing up to 5 g's of force. "At 5 Gs, the Athlete would experience a force equal to five times his weight. For instance, during a 5-G turn, there are 60 to 70 pounds of force pulling his head to the side"
Honestly for the level of danger these athletes face on each run, the amount of protective gear they wear is shockingly sparse. One wrong move at precisely the wrong time, and the results are horrifying. I agree 100 percent that a small error shouldn't lead to death, but it seems it is the case, when it comes to luge. Again, I'm shocked/Glad to hear it doesnt happen on a more regular basis, especially when you take a moment to think the level of danger that is involved with this sport.
valo403
02-14-2010, 01:19 AM
A small error should never equal death, at least not due to flying off a track. That is simply not acceptable.
I should add that I don't know how small the error actually was, but I still have to question whether or not such an accident wasn't foreseeable.
Johnny Canuck
02-14-2010, 01:30 AM
A small error should never equal death, at least not due to flying off a track. That is simply not acceptable.
I should add that I don't know how small the error actually was, but I still have to question whether or not such an accident wasn't foreseeable.
I Agree 100 percent with you. It should never happen. Bottom line. The fact that it did, is really concerning.
CokeMachineGlow
02-14-2010, 01:31 AM
No it's not.
Right, they moved it for aesthetic purposes?
Johnny Canuck
02-14-2010, 01:37 AM
The one thing I'd like to see changed on all luge tracks around the world is some sort of protective padding on anything that is not ice. I mean, losing control of your body and hitting some sort of protective padding would be infinately better than losing control of your body and hitting a concrete pillar.
It really surprises me that they haven't implemented something like this all over the world on these tracks, especially with the obvious dangers that this sport has.
carom
02-14-2010, 02:51 AM
I think this post has no chance of coming off as anything but insensitive, but I have to differ the decision on how to run the event to the experts.
Luge is an inherently dangerous sport. Some sports are like this. Some sports that people have died while/because of participating in other than luge include: most notoriously motor racing, ski racing, boxing, horse racing, rodeo events, rugby, football, soccer, hockey, baseball, and gymnastics. These are all the sports that I know of.
Is it right that these people died? Definitely not, but it does not mean that we should shut the sport down or fundamentally change it on the spot.
All sports evolve for many different reasons.
This event should go on. Don’t forget about this and let the proper authorities make the appropriate changes.
Unfortunately a small mistake can lead to tragedy in the real world also. There is no way to make everything 100% safe. Hopefully you can control the risk that you encounter.
I think the decisions should be made mostly by the coaches, athletes, and the sports federation.
Yes I know that starting a post with: I think this post has no chance of coming off as anything but insensitive is like saying no offense, but … or I don’t want to sound racist but…
Although I am an Electrical Engineer, not a civil engineer as the people that designed this track probably were, my two cents is this:
During your University education, you are taught to take into account the safety of the public as your number one goal. That means, not a single aspect of the design of your work should compromise safety in order to meet another goal. So in this case, designing a track that makes it more exciting to watch because of unsafe speeds, and not including a sufficiently high wall in order for the cameras to get a good view of the action is in my opinion complete negligence on the Engineer's part. I would expect the team of Engineers that designed this to be out of a job soon as they should be.
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