So you think we should not be in Afghanistan

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Wow......animals....

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/11/13/afghan-attack.html

[T@T]

Unbelievable the cruelty that exists in those countries, my nephew got back a few months ago with a new outlook on life, once, on patrol they caught 7 insurgents gang raping an 11 year old in front of her 16 year old brother with the corpse's of their parents they killed in the room. :(

They should round up and move every man/woman/child who wants a better life out of the country and nuke the damn place till theres not even a flower alive.

[driveway]

This is just about getting to 1.5 million posts, isn't it?

[ok, ok,....I get it]

This is just about getting to 1.5 million posts, isn't it?


Explain?

[driveway]

CP is approaching 1.5 million total posts - so people have discussed (in the 1.5 million thread) that we should just start threads on every controversial topic we can think of, to push us over the mark.

[psicodude]

CP is approaching 1.5 million total posts - so people have discussed (in the 1.5 million thread) that we should just start threads on every controversial topic we can think of, to push us over the mark.

I completely disagree with this post, and think it is stupid.

[HOOT]

Meh, let them do whatever they want just keep it out of my backyard! ;)

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Meh, let them do whatever they want just keep it out of my backyard! ;)

Fixed. I assume you meant to do this in green

[Bobblehead]

Meh, let them do whatever they want just keep it out of my backyard! ;)

And we shall call him NIMBY

[jolinar of malkshor]

All the more reason to be there.

[HOOT]

Fixed. I assume you meant to do this in green
I thought we weren't using the green text anymore...but yes I was joking just trying to get that post count up :whistle:

[stang]

This crap happens in the States too.. not just Afganistan

http://www.livingstondaily.com/article/20081111/NEWS01/81111022

http://chicagoist.com/2008/11/10/more_charges_in_logan_square_acid_a.php

Mexico

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/world/article.html?5-year-old_killed_in_acid_attack_horror&in_article_id=387137&in_page_id=64

UK
http://www.times-series.co.uk/news/3804427.Man_found_guilty_of_acid_attack_on_model_h e_was_dating/

[ok, ok,....I get it]

This crap happens in the States too.. not just Afganistan

Ok, two things:


Sources.....
that makes it ok?

[stang]

Ok, two things:


Sources.....
that makes it ok?


I edited my post to add sources...

No definitly not ok.. Definitly horrible.

[Traditional_Ale]

This could be anyone. I think it was their equivalent of the Calgary Aryan Brotherhood or whatever the stupid ######s are calling themselves. The crime however is much more severe than their Calgary counter-parts might commit (hopefully) based on the idea they've been living in a war-zone for the last seven years, their own lives/way of life destroyed and/or condemned by the new society. Intended or not, the attackers will set off more rounds of needless combat between two sides completely bent on blaming each other for everything to justify blowing each other up.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

I edited my post to add sources...

No definitly not ok.. Definitly horrible.

I looked at a couple of these sources (BTW thanks), I would argue that while they are horrible, they are different, one was a jealousy issue.

This is an attack planned for get larger results (no women in schools).

[stang]

I looked at a couple of these sources (BTW thanks), I would argue that while they are horrible, they are different, one was a jealousy issue.

This is an attack planned for get larger results (no women in schools).

Yeah I can agree... just saying there are ######bags everywhere.

[Russic]

This may not be the most popular opinion around here, but is stuff like this really a justification for us being there? Atrocious things like this happen all over the world and have been happening for a very long time. I'm not sure you can look at incidents like this in the country we happen to be stationed in and say "see? we should be there" and then turn a blind eye to the other places that are seeing violence at the same level.

Afghanistan is a tricky situation for me. Years into the conflict and I still haven't formed an opinion on whether we should be there or not. I'm sure we're making positive advancements, but when it's all said and done and we get out of there I really question whether it'll just fall right back to where it was. If that does in fact happen, what did those soldiers die for?

[peter12]

Yeah I can agree... just saying there are ######bags everywhere.

You should probably also notice that in both cases the perps were caught and sentenced to the maximum degree under the law. Our culture doesn't tolerate this behaviour, not matter what the form.

Some cultures clearly do condone this behaviour, however.

[GoinAllTheWay]

For sure we should be there. I understand that many posters here need sources to back up claims and if I could remember what newspaper it was in I would inlcude the source but I don't atm. That being said, since allies have gone into the country, the follwoing has happened:

1) Roads are being rebuilt
2) 80% of the population has access to medical care, compared ot 15% before hand
3) Universities have been re-opened
4) Women are going to school
5) The economy is slowly but surely beggining to come back

All I can remember off the top of my head but would say that is a great deal of improvement.

Like others have said, crimes that started this post happen all over the world but one would have to think the intensity/frequecny is higher in Afganistan.

[Bobblehead]

Personally, I believed we should be there.

We were part of a unified effort to root out a regime that was harbouring and aiding individuals who were actively performing terrorist acts around the globe. And when pushed to prevent those individuals from performing those acts, that regime steadfastly refused.

The leading nations of the world then looked a the situation as it stood and decided it was untenable to leave it like that, and with a firm international agreement took action.

I support all that. I supported the Liberals for sending them, I support the CPC for keeping them there and giving them the financial and equipment support thay had been lacking.

My biggest issue in the ongoing effort was that the US removed and diverted troops to the Iraq conflict. So instead of rooting out the source of the 9/11 attacks, the Afghanistan war has turned into a long drawn out affair.

I still support us being there. I think to pull out too soon would leave a power vacuum that would be quickly filled by the exact people we went to remove. But I do wish there was more support. Perhaps a surge similar to what was done in Iraq would push the Taliban insurgents underground long enough to establish a credible Afghani force to stand up for themselves and allow for whatever progress the afghan people as a whole want, as opposed to what the rest of the world or some Taliban fundamentalists want.

[flip]

CP is approaching 1.5 million total posts - so people have discussed (in the 1.5 million thread) that we should just start threads on every controversial topic we can think of, to push us over the mark.

I completely disagree with this post, and think it is stupid.


Was this supposed to be in green? The dude is just making a joke. Lets not get our panties in a knot just yet. It all stems from the epic original millionth post thread.

[FlamesAddiction]

I'm not going to say that we should not be there, but we should not be there forever... or even for too terribly long. I'm a big fan of time tables and without one, we could just be dooming ourselves for a long and drawn out affair that we cannot win. I believe that the "diminishing returns" principle applies in Afghanistan, and the longer foreign troops stay there, the more difficult it will be to pull out. Unless we set a clear time table with tangible benchmarks, then we're nothing more than body guards for the sketchy Afghan regime (whose power is contigent on having the Taliban to fight against).

[Magnum PEI]

Of course we shouldn't be in Afghanistan. The only reason we're there in the first place is because Osama bin Laden happened to call it home. Yeah NATO is doing all kinds of reconstruction, but there's plenty of other countries (who's citizens aren't growing barbituates) that could use that kind of money.

[habernac]

Personally, I believed we should be there.

We were part of a unified effort to root out a regime that was harbouring and aiding individuals who were actively performing terrorist acts around the globe. And when pushed to prevent those individuals from performing those acts, that regime steadfastly refused.

The leading nations of the world then looked a the situation as it stood and decided it was untenable to leave it like that, and with a firm international agreement took action.

I support all that. I supported the Liberals for sending them, I support the CPC for keeping them there and giving them the financial and equipment support thay had been lacking.

My biggest issue in the ongoing effort was that the US removed and diverted troops to the Iraq conflict. So instead of rooting out the source of the 9/11 attacks, the Afghanistan war has turned into a long drawn out affair.

I still support us being there. I think to pull out too soon would leave a power vacuum that would be quickly filled by the exact people we went to remove. But I do wish there was more support. Perhaps a surge similar to what was done in Iraq would push the Taliban insurgents underground long enough to establish a credible Afghani force to stand up for themselves and allow for whatever progress the afghan people as a whole want, as opposed to what the rest of the world or some Taliban fundamentalists want.

if the rest of our partner nations would actually lend some troops that actually get into the line of fire, that would help, too.

Perhaps some of our more militarily inclined members can comment, I recall something about the European nations all being stationed in the stable parts of the country, leaving the US and Canada to handle the tough parts.

[T@T]

if the rest of our partner nations would actually lend some troops that actually get into the line of fire, that would help, too.

Perhaps some of our more militarily inclined members can comment, I recall something about the European nations all being stationed in the stable parts of the country, leaving the US and Canada to handle the tough parts.
You could add the Brits as well but i get your drift.

[Bagor]

if the rest of our partner nations would actually lend some troops that actually get into the line of fire, that would help, too.

Perhaps some of our more militarily inclined members can comment, I recall something about the European nations all being stationed in the stable parts of the country, leaving the US and Canada to handle the tough parts.

I think the Dutch are getting stuck in and taking a few hits also.

Not military inclined but I can say that you're talking about Germany, Spain, France and Italy who ......."are currently the holders of so-called "red card" national caveats that allow them to keep their troops away from the most dangerous areas of operations in Afghanistan.
These "red cards" were initially negotiated into agreements at the beginning of the NATO operation by countries willing to aid security and reconstruction in Afghanistan. However, in exchange for their pledged support, the countries could opt out of certain operations whenever they chose to do so."

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2250071,00.html

In other words they'll go to war as long as they don't have to fight.

Defeats the purpose of NATO that they were even allowed to negotiate for the cards. I thought you were either in as an equal or you weren't. :confused:

Here's a map from 2006.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42327000/gif/_42327257_afghan_flashpoints3_416.gif

The Germans and Italians couldn't be any further away from the flashpoints. :rolleyes:

[Svartsengi]

I am curious. How many members of Calgary Puck who believe we should be in Afghanistan will enlist in the Army of the Canadian Armed Forces?.

Here is a website that will help with the debate:

http://www.warisaracket.org/

I say we leave.

[Thor]

If history tells us anything, we should leave.

[peter12]

Of course we shouldn't be in Afghanistan. The only reason we're there in the first place is because Osama bin Laden happened to call it home. Yeah NATO is doing all kinds of reconstruction, but there's plenty of other countries (who's citizens aren't growing barbituates) that could use that kind of money.

What the heck does that mean? So we chose one to help... we can't help everyone. Or do Afghans not deserve it because they were forced into growing opium?

What a ridiculous opinion, you have.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I am curious. How many members of Calgary Puck who believe we should be in Afghanistan will enlist in the Army of the Canadian Armed Forces?.

At least two if memory serves me correct.

[octothorp]

It's sad that it happened, but it has nothing to do with the original motives for going over there - children in Afghanistan were always denied the right to education, and our western governments didn't seem to care until 9/11. Some countries still deny children that right, with children who go to school risking their safety every day. And even a truly liberated and free Afghanistan won't be enough to prevent this sort of attack for a generation or so until attitudes towards women and education change.

When there are countries in Africa with thousands of refugee children dying every day, I don't really see an attack like this as justification for being in Afghanistan.
I'd far rather that we had spent the last five years trying to make a difference in the Darfur conflict, but the sad reality is that it's not politically possible to get involved in that conflict; the US-lead coalition made it seem fairly safe to get involved in Afghanistan.

It's not that it's a bad war to be involved in; the motives for going over there were decent motives, and the deaths of our armed forces are emotionally a bit hard to swallow back home, but not unbearable for our military. It's just that we're not going to be able to create the sort of change in attitudes that some people seem to be hoping for. We aren't going to be able to turn it into a western society.

[jolinar of malkshor]

I am curious. How many members of Calgary Puck who believe we should be in Afghanistan will enlist in the Army of the Canadian Armed Forces?.

Here is a website that will help with the debate:

http://www.warisaracket.org/

I say we leave.

Oh yes, the old arguement of "if you think we should be at war go enlist". Our military is completely voluntary, we are not talking about a draft here my friend.

[Robbob]

The frustrating thing I find with Afghanistan is that if the Americans spent what they did in Iraq in Afghanistan I think it would be light years ahead of where it is now with the possibility of being over. I supported the original cause for being there but I think it is getting to the point where we need to move on.

[psicodude]

Was this supposed to be in green? The dude is just making a joke. Lets not get our panties in a knot just yet. It all stems from the epic original millionth post thread.

Dude. Of course it was a joke about the 1.5 millionth post. I thought it was obvious enough to not even require the green text.

[Bobblehead]

Dude. Of course it was a joke about the 1.5 millionth post. I thought it was obvious enough to not even require the green text.
Roger Ebert had a similar issue when he wrote about Creationism.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2008/09/this_is_the_dawning_of_the_age.html

[burn_this_city]

What the heck does that mean? So we chose one to help... we can't help everyone. Or do Afghans not deserve it because they were forced into growing opium?

What a ridiculous opinion, you have.

Are you surprised?? :whistle:

[ok, ok,....I get it]

I am curious. How many members of Calgary Puck who believe we should be in Afghanistan will enlist in the Army of the Canadian Armed Forces?.

Here is a website that will help with the debate:

http://www.warisaracket.org/

I say we leave.

Really, 1980 called they want their term back. Oh and BTW, when I was young I did join and I went on to a place where there were mean people.

[CaptainCrunch]

I am curious. How many members of Calgary Puck who believe we should be in Afghanistan will enlist in the Army of the Canadian Armed Forces?.

Here is a website that will help with the debate:

http://www.warisaracket.org/

I say we leave.

Thanks did my part for king and country, but if I was 20 again, in a heart beat.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Thanks did my part for king and country, but if I was 20 again, in a heart beat.

really, you are old.....

[Svartsengi]

Oh yes, the old arguement of "if you think we should be at war go enlist". Our military is completely voluntary, we are not talking about a draft here my friend.

Read what I wrote. I didn't say anything about a draft. Simply posed a question.

[Svartsengi]

Really, 1980 called they want their term back. Oh and BTW, when I was young I did join and I went on to a place where there were mean people.

Thank you for your service. You don't have to be snotty if the terminology isn't correct.

I believe our armed forces personnel are brave and courageous doing a fine job. I don't like the corrupt administration of Hamid Karzi(sp). There is not enough members of Nato stepping up with the troops. Many Generals have been complaining about this for a long time. What do you think of the top British General (can't remember his name) in Afghanistan who said recently that the war is unwinable. His interview appeared on BBC.