Gas tank full today?

[habernac]

my father in law says it's $1.40 in the NE already, my wife just filled up for 126.9 and had about 30 cars line up after her.

[JerzeeGirl]

Oh crap - i can't get to my car till after 4pm, and i only have a 1/4 tank.....i am so screwed!!!!

thanks for the warning tho habby!

[metal_geek]

I saw the 140.9 this morning with half a tank in my truck.. I said screw it, I'll hold onto my money for a few days before giving it to the cartels...

Then I saw the line ups at the COOP gas station for 125.4 gas and decided to take them up on thier offer...

[STeeLy]

I don't quite understand.

How is Gas in Ontario cheaper than Gas in Alberta?

and it's not because we haven't changed our prices out here yet... it's like that all the time for some reason... when Calgary was hovering 132... it was 126 out here

[czure32]

thankfully for me, rural alberta tends to be slower at updating their gas prices. If today runs the same trend as every other time there has been a spike in gas prices, I should be able to fill up at 124.9 in Carstairs on the way home (thats what the 3 gas stations out here were at when I drove by this morning...The Co-op is always the last to increase the price as well)

[Locke]

Son of a bitch....

[Bleeding Red]

I don't quite understand.

How is Gas in Ontario cheaper than Gas in Alberta?

and it's not because we haven't changed our prices out here yet... it's like that all the time for some reason... when Calgary was hovering 132... it was 126 out here


According to a CBC article - "By the same token, a regional glut of gasoline will drive down prices. That's why southern Ontario sometimes has gasoline prices below Alberta's, even though Ontario levies higher taxes. In fact, the gasoline used by motorists in central and eastern Canada is often refined from oil imported from Algeria or Norway. What some call gouging, the industry calls normal market forces."

Volume sales could also play a role.

[Pagal4321]

Thankfully I've got 3/4 of a tank.

I really don't understand the gigantic spike in price whenever they see a Hurricane stop porduction, but when the price of oil goes down the price of gas doesn't move.

[shane_c]

I really don't understand any of this. We've been at $1.32/l for the last 3+ weeks despite the price of oil coming down quite a bit. Oil goes up, gas goes up. Oil comes down, gas stays the same or goes up. I'm tired of this crap.

[metal_geek]

I think because the hurricane can affect the refining capacity which is directly down the chain from the pumps, whereas the oil prie is for oil contracts a month into the future. So oil price fluctuations can take a month or more to affect the gas price, whereas the hurricane can instantaneously affect the gasoline supply/price.


They wouldn't want to shock us with 10.00 or 11.00 saved overnight... that'd be crule....

[Tyler]

Gas should be cheaper in Ontario. That's where all the refineries are I think.

PS: Saw the article on Canoe.ca yesterday and hastily filled up :)

[malcolmk14]

filled up last night, thank god.

[metallicat]

Filled up for a 1.21 or so just now here.

[CaptainCrunch]

Off to find Locke's car, got my garden hose and some breath mints for the gas taste.

[4X4]

Price tip: the Gas Plus on Parkdale Blvd (AKA Memorial) is always significantly cheaper. I filled up this morning at $121.9

The lady who works there told me that she'll be jacking up the price by 11am, so if you're in the neighbourhood...

[Bobblehead]

*sigh*
I had been waiting until Saturday since it is the Esso United Way Day (one cent per litre donated to the United Way) and I'm less than a quarter tank.

So by wanting to donate 1 cent per litre, I'm going to pay 10 cents per litre more.

[4X4]

Off to find Locke's car, got my garden hose and some breath mints for the gas taste.

Premium is sour, regular is tangy and diesel tastes good...

[OBCT]

I don't quite understand.

How is Gas in Ontario cheaper than Gas in Alberta?

and it's not because we haven't changed our prices out here yet... it's like that all the time for some reason... when Calgary was hovering 132... it was 126 out here

I believe the main reason is because there are only a few huge oil companies that dominate the entire industry (Exxon-Mobil, Conoco, Shell, Chevron, BP, maybe a couple others). Most, if not all, of them are American-owned. These companies look at the big picture for their fuel distribution business, and make decisions based on that.

There are many vairables that go into gas prices (tax, cost of transportation, supply/demand, etc). Overall though, since the biggest markets in North America are fairly obvious, it makes sense for the companies to make their base of operations near these areas to limit unnecessary shipping costs for themselves overall.

One thing that can happen for certain areas because of this is extra transportation of the goods than necessary. For example, oil could be drilled in Alberta, shipped to a nearby refinery and be all but ready for distribution to the public there for a low cost. "Big Oil" doesn't see it that way. They look at the bigger picture for themselves --- Alberta is small, so they choose to ship all this near-finished fuel to their main (often U.S.) hubs for "tweaking" (ie. addition of additives, in-house testing), and then final shipping to the individual gas stations after that. The shipping costs become inflated for Alberta because there is no localized company which caters to just them; if there were, they could probably undercut gas prices at the pump there by a fair margin.

[Nufy]

I'm starting to think that the price of gas is linked to Oil prices only when the Oil companies want it to.

I'm sure there are market factors and stuff affecting it but for the average schmoe who see's gas go up with the price of Oil and then no change when it drops, you have to think something is up.

[transplant99]

Even worse here...not price wise...but stations dont HAVE gas to sell....many of them anyhow.

Just filled up 20 miles from my house...going back with another vehicle this afternoon. Price jumped $.40 a gallon from Tuesday.

Badt times.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

I believe the main reason is because there are only a few huge oil companies that dominate the entire industry (Exxon-Mobil, Conoco, Shell, Chevron, BP, maybe a couple others). Most, if not all, of them are American-owned. These companies look at the big picture for their fuel distribution business, and make decisions based on that.



Not quite:

There are 6 "Supermajor" Oil companies around and Half of them are American
Exxon-Mobil = American
Conoco = American
Chevron = American

BP = British Petroleum = British
Shell = Royal Dutch Shell = Dutch
Total = French

Of course in reality they're all multinational corporations and whether they're American, French, Brittsh, or Dutch is just a matter of where their head offices happen to be.

[Bertuzzied]

Did Petrocan ever get their gas? Everytime i drove by the one in richmond it was blocked off by yellow police tape.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Of course this happens on the day when I have to drive up to the city that soap forgot (Edmonton).

Curses.

[Tron_fdc]

Thankfully, we have a diesel tank for our mobile equipment that I swipe gas from; I think I'm still under $1/litre right now.

ssshhhhhhh......

[CaptainCrunch]

Thankfully, we have a diesel tank for our mobile equipment that I swipe gas from; I think I'm still under $1/litre right now.

ssshhhhhhh......

Is it purple? :)

[Tron_fdc]

Is it purple? :)

Nope. Commercial diesel that we buy from Esso.....

[Madman]

I'm starting to think that the price of gas is linked to Oil prices only when the Oil companies want it to.

I'm sure there are market factors and stuff affecting it but for the average schmoe who see's gas go up with the price of Oil and then no change when it drops, you have to think something is up.

That's exactly what it is. When prices go up and people complain, there is some news story quoting some Economist or Strategist that the rise is fuel prices is directly related to the price of oil rising that very same day.

But...when oil prices drop and gar prices stay high, the same dick face Economist is back on the news stating that low oil prices take time to reflect back to the consumer - yeah, no shi!t!

[BlackArcher101]

Of course this happens on the day when I have to drive up to the city that soap forgot (Edmonton).

Curses.

Same here, except I'm leaving tomorrow :(

[burn_this_city]

I just got a tank of diesel from the flying J for the same price as last week ($1.16). I dont think everywhere has raised prices yet..

[burn_this_city]

Thankfully, we have a diesel tank for our mobile equipment that I swipe gas from; I think I'm still under $1/litre right now.

ssshhhhhhh......

Knowing what you drive you better be careful. If its not ULSD you could do some damage. Especially with a fuel filter at 0% life. :whistle:

[Locke]

Off to find Locke's car, got my garden hose and some breath mints for the gas taste.

Amateur. All the pros know that you always use someone else's garden hoses to throw off the fuzz. I think Jolinar might have left his on his lawn....

Premium is sour, regular is tangy and diesel tastes good...

This explains so much. So much....

[transplant99]

Just went and filled the second vehicle...prices had gone up another $.20 a gallon from this morning.

Gougers!!!!!

[Tron_fdc]

Knowing what you drive you better be careful. If its not ULSD you could do some damage. Especially with a fuel filter at 0% life. :whistle:

Just changed my filter, so I think I'm OK. Apparently the one that was on there was finger tightened, which would explain the DTC code showing a problem with the fuel filter.

What's ULSD? I better check into that. Last thing I need is a blown engine not covered by warranty because I was cheaping out on fuel.

[Rathji]

Just changed my filter, so I think I'm OK. Apparently the one that was on there was finger tightened, which would explain the DTC code showing a problem with the fuel filter.

What's ULSD? I better check into that. Last thing I need is a blown engine not covered by warranty because I was cheaping out on fuel.

Low sulfur desiel, it is what you get from any normal desiel pump, as required by law. If you are getting your desiel from a 'non standard source' which is not intended for automobiles, then as I understand it the standards are a little lower.

This is just what I have heard.

[flamesaresmokin]

I really don't understand any of this. We've been at $1.32/l for the last 3+ weeks despite the price of oil coming down quite a bit. Oil goes up, gas goes up. Oil comes down, gas stays the same or goes up. I'm tired of this crap.

To put it simply - gas providers bought the gas thats selling today a week ago at 115 a barrell. Since the price has dropped they don't want to lower the price and cut into the profits. They have alreadybought the oil for a higher price then they could buy it for now. Funny thing is that when the opposite happens they don't hesitate to jack the prices immediately.

http://www.calgarygasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

Based on this chart you can see that we should be paying far less then we are now (hurricane or not) based on the prices of 100-105 a barrell a few month ago. Maybe its just me but i'm getting tired of the whole blitz the consumer garbage.

[burn_this_city]

Just changed my filter, so I think I'm OK. Apparently the one that was on there was finger tightened, which would explain the DTC code showing a problem with the fuel filter.

What's ULSD? I better check into that. Last thing I need is a blown engine not covered by warranty because I was cheaping out on fuel.

Typically most diesel sold in Alberta is Ultra low Sulphur. I'd just be sure it wasnt from a super shady source. Also never run biodiesel because our common rail fuel injection systems can't tolerate the crappy quality of most biodiesel out there.

[burn_this_city]

To put it simply - gas providers bought the gas thats selling today a week ago at 115 a barrell. Since the price has dropped they don't want to lower the price and cut into the profits. They have alreadybought the oil for a higher price then they could buy it for now. Funny thing is that when the opposite happens they don't hesitate to jack the prices immediately.

http://www.calgarygasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

Based on this chart you can see that we should be paying far less then we are now (hurricane or not) based on the prices of 100-105 a barrell a few month ago. Maybe its just me but i'm getting tired of the whole blitz the consumer garbage.

Oil sold on the commodity markets is for delivery a month down the road. The price shouldnt fluctuate that wildly. But I'll admit it seems to go up faster than down. Oil hit the record high in the 1st or 2nd week in July, so we should see our price trending downward continously over the next couple of months. This should happen so long as our dollar doesnt go in the toilet because energy stocks drop.

[flamesaresmokin]

Oil sold on the commodity markets is for delivery a month down the road. The price shouldnt fluctuate that wildly. But I'll admit it seems to go up faster than down. Oil hit the record high in the 1st or 2nd week in July, so we should see our price trending downward continously over the next couple of months. This should happen so long as our dollar doesnt go in the toilet because energy stocks drop.

True, but I don't buy the dollar theory either. Our dollar was in the tank for several years and we had extremely low gas prices at that point in time. The only reason the prices should jump like they are is if the price goes back to 140 a barrell and sticks. If the prices stay in the area they are there is no reason we should be paying more then 1.10 /L based on what they have charged us in the past.

[Tron_fdc]

Typically most diesel sold in Alberta is Ultra low Sulphur. I'd just be sure it wasnt from a super shady source. Also never run biodiesel because our common rail fuel injection systems can't tolerate the crappy quality of most biodiesel out there.

Yeah, it comes from Esso so I should be OK.

And Biodiesel if for hippies. I'm way more into 2-strokes, big engines and polluting, all-throttle-no-bottle trucks.

[Cawz]

Oil sold on the commodity markets is for delivery a month down the road. The price shouldnt fluctuate that wildly. But I'll admit it seems to go up faster than down. Oil hit the record high in the 1st or 2nd week in July, so we should see our price trending downward continously over the next couple of months.Which probably has something to do with the fact that the summer driving season is over.

[burn_this_city]

If anyone wants a laugh check out the comments at the bottom of this article. Every Johnny Liberal east of Winnipeg is calling for the complete nationalization of the oil industry.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2008/09/12/gas-prices.html

[dobbles]

i blame the weather channel. their fear mongering scares everyone into believing every tropical system is going to destroy the entire earth... yet again, if you read the NWS statements and advisories, they paint an entirely different picture then the television weather. but then again they have to drum up ratings somehow...

the side effect though is that everyone buys into the panic and gas prices jump for really no reason. other than they have a plausible excuse if anyone tries to ask about it.

i wouldn't want to live on the gulf coast tonight, but this isn't exactly a katrina, rita, andrew, camille, or any other devastating storm. those oil rigs and refineries have made it through worse than this.

[Dion]

Thankfully I've got 3/4 of a tank.

I really don't understand the gigantic spike in price whenever they see a Hurricane stop porduction, but when the price of oil goes down the price of gas doesn't move.

And if the off shore rigs aren't hit, boom, the price goes down.

[Hack&Lube]

Good job America, 1/3rd of your refining capacity is right in the middle of Hurricane Alley

[dobbles]

Good job America, 1/3rd of your refining capacity is right in the middle of Hurricane Alley

you act surprised???

what do you expect from us? intelligence?!?!?!!?

[Hack&Lube]

Co-op by Brentwood station is still 1.26

The Esso and Petro-Can up in Edgemont is still 1.26 also

[Wookie]

memorial drive gas plus is still 121

[Buff]

I've been hearing that Safeway in Lethbridge has their gas priced at 150.4. When I went for gas at 10:00am I had a hard time finding a station close to work without a huge lineup.

[ken0042]

My gut tells me that the refineries produced too much gas in preperation for the last hurricane, and now need to liquidate some of their assets.

Easy way to do it- "leak" to the media that gas prices are going up. A few stations will raise their prices that much to be able to make 16¢ per litre on their current inventory as opposed to the normal 3¢. Then everybody with 1/2 full tanks will fill up to save money. So instead of sitting on a reserve of gasoline, the oil companies have the cash instead.

[BlackArcher101]

Everyone in Red Deer is either oblivious or don't think it's going to go up. Stations are nearly deserted. However, some Shells here not only are out of low grade gas, but also mid grade gas and only have their V-Power available for 138.

[Ironhorse]

I now fill up my MINI for what it used to cost me to fill up my truck.

[4X4]

Everyone in Red Deer is either oblivious or don't think it's going to go up. Stations are nearly deserted. However, some Shells here not only are out of low grade gas, but also mid grade gas and only have their V-Power available for 138.

Mid grade is just a blend of premium and regular. It's done at the pump, by the pump.

[BlackArcher101]

Mid grade is just a blend of premium and regular. It's done at the pump, by the pump.

But I've seen stations run out of low grade, then sell the mid grade at the same price of low. Is that just a marketing ploy? Cause I fell for it then. :bag:

[4X4]

But I've seen stations run out of low grade, then sell the mid grade at the same price of low. Is that just a marketing ploy? Cause I fell for it then. :bag:

It's either premium or else they actually have a third holding tank that is a mix. I suppose I shouldn't have stated it so factually. I worked at a gas station in high school and that's what they did there, and according to my manager, that's what they do everywhere. Makes sense, actually. There's no reason to have three refining levels when the one in the middle is halfway between the outer ones. Mixing them after the fact is more logical. But yeah, it's not necessarily what they do everywhere...

[pepper24]

In the Gulf Coast, the price of RBOB gasoline has jump over $1.50 us/gal over the past few days. I am an oil and gas trader watching this closely. A similar thing happened during Katrina/Rita due to refinery capacity and evacuees taking the remaining supplies.

By late next week, the price of gasoline should settle down again.

[Flames in 07]

I don't quite understand.

How is Gas in Ontario cheaper than Gas in Alberta?

and it's not because we haven't changed our prices out here yet... it's like that all the time for some reason... when Calgary was hovering 132... it was 126 out here

A few people have responded but there is only one reason for this ... PCAN refinery in Edmonton is down and has been for a long time. There isn't much gasoline here in Ab/Sk/N BC.

Just another example of dozens of posts around the presumption that oil companies are making up reasons, the reality is that this market is served by 3 refineries, and one has been down for a long time simple as that. In fact to me the correct observation is that it's surprising that they didn't shoot up like this earlier. Economics would dictate they should.

[BlackArcher101]

A few people have responded but there is only one reason for this ... PCAN refinery in Edmonton is down and has been for a long time. There isn't much gasoline here in Ab/Sk/N BC.

Hasn't it been running for nearly 2 or 3 weeks now?

edit: Shutodwn Aug 3 - 27th. http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=abe849de-3dab-4195-ad75-ccd47d069875

[4X4]

Wow. I've got the news on in the background and I could swear they just said that the price of gas in dirty-stinking-mulletville is pushing $1.50

[Madman]

That's exactly what it is. When prices go up and people complain, there is some news story quoting some Economist or Strategist that the rise is fuel prices is directly related to the price of oil rising that very same day.

But...when oil prices drop and gar prices stay high, the same dick face Economist is back on the news stating that low oil prices take time to reflect back to the consumer - yeah, no shi!t!
Surprise surprise. I get home and turn on the news to hear some stupid asshat try and tell me why gas prices can jump instantly overnight - I get livid listening to these pickle lickers.

:mad:

[Dion]

I slipped out to fill my gas tank at my local High River station only to find they upped the price. Normaly they are day late in raising prices, sadly they weren't today.

Calgary CTV is reporting that Hurricane Ike is responsible. Add to the fact the rigs in the Gulf Coast are shut down for the moment.

Tis the season to be gouging :(

[Dion]

That's exactly what it is. When prices go up and people complain, there is some news story quoting some Economist or Strategist that the rise is fuel prices is directly related to the price of oil rising that very same day.

But...when oil prices drop and gar prices stay high, the same dick face Economist is back on the news stating that low oil prices take time to reflect back to the consumer - yeah, no shi!t!

Quick to raise those prices based on fear and slow to drop afterwards. Clearly ignoring the fact that the gas in the tanks below was based on the original price posted at the pumps before the ridiclous increase. :mad:

[BlackArcher101]

Couldn't they be raising prices to force a decrease in demand since they expect lower levels of production currently and into the next week? That would make sense.

[Jing]

Hey guys, not sure if this has been posted, but the esso on 5th ave and crowchild still has regular gas for $1.254. I talked to the lady and she says she has yet to receive instructions to raise the prices, so you guys better hurry!

[Jing]

I slipped out to fill my gas tank at my local High River station only to find they upped the price. Normaly they are day late in raising prices, sadly they weren't today.

Calgary CTV is reporting that Hurricane Ike is responsible. Add to the fact the rigs in the Gulf Coast are shut down for the moment.

Tis the season to be gouging :(

I have also heard that the price spike is due to the more expensive barrels (from before) of oil are now hitting refineries.

[ricosuave]

www.calgarygasprices.com

[Slava]

Its a pure scam. I am shocked that with the election in full swing that the NDP or Liberals don't trot out something to rectify the obvious scamming that takes place in this market.

This happened a few years ago with Hurrican Rita as well...there was a fear that there could be major damage. Alas no damage was done, but that didn't stop the prices for rocketing up to $2.00/litre in Ontario. Its frankly amazing that sometimes we have to wait for the old supply to catch up (when the price ought to be dropping), but this never seems to matter when the prices are due to rise. Clearly the gas in the pump today was bought and paid for before this week...so to increase the price now is a pure cash grab, end of story.

[STeeLy]

For those of us outside Calgary... here's another site:
http://www.mcteague.ca/WebPages/gas_price_today.htm

[Flames in 07]

Hasn't it been running for nearly 2 or 3 weeks now?

edit: Shutodwn Aug 3 - 27th. http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=abe849de-3dab-4195-ad75-ccd47d069875

I'm going to reply to a few notes here:

PCAN in Edmonton is at low rates, AND they have a planned turnaround (Refinery shuts down for maintaince) in October.

Also Crude being down near 100 now will help gas prices in a few weeks, but it takes a few weeks for those 100 barrels to be run through the refinery and sent to the market.

A stronger USD will reduce WTI as importers need less USD to be compensated for their product, that's the same as any other good, if the commodity is denominated in USD, and USD become more valuable, foreigners will need USD to be compensated for their good.

In retail gasoline the only complain consumers have that has any basis in reality is that companies seem to drag their feet when crude prices go down, but seem to be on top of price adjustments as crude is going up.

[Flames in 07]

Its a pure scam. I am shocked that with the election in full swing that the NDP or Liberals don't trot out something to rectify the obvious scamming that takes place in this market.

This happened a few years ago with Hurrican Rita as well...there was a fear that there could be major damage. Alas no damage was done, but that didn't stop the prices for rocketing up to $2.00/litre in Ontario. Its frankly amazing that sometimes we have to wait for the old supply to catch up (when the price ought to be dropping), but this never seems to matter when the prices are due to rise. Clearly the gas in the pump today was bought and paid for before this week...so to increase the price now is a pure cash grab, end of story.

I'd love to hear you elaborate on this further.

If prices go up right now it can be as a function of anticipated supply in the future. Many refineries will now be down for a while, they don't turn on like a light switch when they are shut down, and relevant to Calgary PCAN will be going down in October. If supply in the future of any commodity or good is anticipated, price goes up.

Politicians really rarely address this anymore because they know many have tried to paint a picture of a scam to be proven wrong (with small exceptions of say an individual retail location taking advantage of an isolated icident.

[jayswin]

I'm going to reply to a few notes here:

PCAN in Edmonton is at low rates, AND they have a planned turnaround (Refinery shuts down for maintaince) in October.

Also Crude being down near 100 now will help gas prices in a few weeks, but it takes a few weeks for those 100 barrels to be run through the refinery and sent to the market.

A stronger USD will reduce WTI as importers need less USD to be compensated for their product, that's the same as any other good, if the commodity is denominated in USD, and USD become more valuable, foreigners will need USD to be compensated for their good.

In retail gasoline the only complain consumers have that has any basis in reality is that companies seem to drag their feet when crude prices go down, but seem to be on top of price adjustments as crude is going up.

..and that's exactly what most people are complaining about.

[Flames in 07]

..and that's exactly what most people are complaining about.

I disagree, people don't complain about Bob's Enterprises Ltd working prices, they complain about big oil companies supposedly ripping everyone off.

[Cowboy89]

Its a pure scam. I am shocked that with the election in full swing that the NDP or Liberals don't trot out something to rectify the obvious scamming that takes place in this market.

This happened a few years ago with Hurrican Rita as well...there was a fear that there could be major damage. Alas no damage was done, but that didn't stop the prices for rocketing up to $2.00/litre in Ontario. Its frankly amazing that sometimes we have to wait for the old supply to catch up (when the price ought to be dropping), but this never seems to matter when the prices are due to rise. Clearly the gas in the pump today was bought and paid for before this week...so to increase the price now is a pure cash grab, end of story.

Yeah and the stock you bought last week cost you x so why are you allowed to sell it at y this week? Come on you should know better. When hurricanes create a higher chance of a supply shortage all of a sudden the commodity of gasoline is worth more due to the increased chance of a shortage occuring in the future. Future expectations are are built into the price at the pump in much the same way as they are built into the price of an equity. Should the retailer ignore its higher value and sell it to you for the same price as last week? This is exactly the same thing as when an equity increases in value due to new information.

[OilersBaby]

I just talked to my mother in law and she said in Kentucky the gas prices went upto over $5.00......I guess it's like that from Texas north up through the midwest. She advised me to go fill up my tank but here in San Jose, CA, it's still only $3.79 per gallon.

Seems like its gone up overnight in Calgary too.

What's going on? I dont get how the weather situation in Texas affects the price of gas in Calgary.

[Fire]

What's going on? I dont get how the weather situation in Texas affects the price of gas in Calgary.

There are many refineries shut down in that area, which means less gas supply. Demand > Supply = Price Increases

[Azure]

Oil price down under $100 today.

No surprise. Rumors are the market is over-supplied with oil, so they have to lower oil prices to make up for the difference.

[Azure]

Its a pure scam.

Well, how many refineries got shutdown because of the Hurricane? Of production has been cut back because of it, I wouldn't call it a scam.

Oil prices keep falling because there is excess oil on the market, and they're trying to get rid of it.

We should be glad though....with a normal supply of oil, the oil price would be through the roof right now.

[Azure]

There are many refineries shut down in that area, which means less gas supply. Demand > Supply = Price Increases

Exactly.

[Dion]

Well, how many refineries got shutdown because of the Hurricane? Of production has been cut back because of it, I wouldn't call it a scam.

I think it's a scam when the increased prices are based on fears that rigs and refineries could damaged and down for quite awhile. If the fears don't pan out prices start to drop soon afterwards.

Why not wait until we see what damage there is before hiking prices.

Oil prices keep falling because there is excess oil on the market, and they're trying to get rid of it.


Institutional investors caused the rapid rise and subsequent steep fall in oil prices in 2008, according to an independent report released by U.S. lawmakers yesterday.

Lawmakers unveiled his report on Capitol Hill to bolster their efforts to rein in what they believe is excessive speculation in oil markets. The Commodity Futures Trading Commission is to report to the U.S. Congress within days on the role speculators played in the oil market.

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/497056

[Azure]

I think it's a scam when the increased prices are based on fears that rigs and refineries could damaged and down for quite awhile. If the fears don't pan out prices start to drop soon afterwards.

Why not wait until we see what damage there is before hiking prices.


Because by then its already too late.

They're is a shortage of gas right now, which results in the increase in price.

Simple supply and demand economics.


Institutional investors caused the rapid rise and subsequent steep fall in oil prices in 2008, according to an independent report released by U.S. lawmakers yesterday.


That was before it began dropping. OPEC had to increase production during the summer, and right now there is extra oil on the market. That is the only reason prices aren't rising in step with the gas prices.

Shortage of gas, excess of oil. Results in a lower oil price, higher gas price.

[Dion]

Because by then its already too late.

They're is a shortage of gas right now, which results in the increase in price.

Then set your prices based on the present shortage as opposed to what you think the shortage will look like after the storm

Simple supply and demand economics.

The amount of damage determines the amount of the increase. If the refineries are down for a long period time the shortage will become greater creating more demand and higher prices. Contrast that to them being up and running in say a week and thus being able to supply that shortage sooner.

That was before it began dropping. OPEC had to increase production during the summer, and right now there is extra oil on the market. That is the only reason prices aren't rising in step with the gas prices.

Shortage of gas, excess of oil. Results in a lower oil price, higher gas price.

Are you saying that speculators no longer have a say in the price of oil?

[Azure]

Then set your prices based on the present shortage as opposed to what you think the shortage will look like after the storm


No, they set their prices according to the supply that is currently available. Obviously, there is a shortage of gas right now, so the price automatically goes up.

This isn't 'new'....its the way a free-market operates.


The amount of damage determines the amount of the increase. If the refineries are down for a long period time the shortage will become greater creating more demand and higher prices. Contrast that to them being up and running in say a week and thus being able to supply that shortage sooner.


Uhhhh, I think they already HAVE accessed the damage, and realize that it might take a while to get the refineries back online, hence the sudden jump in prices.

There were Emergency Services in the US who were told the the day before the hurricane hit Texas to come fill up all their cars because there was going to be a huge shortage of gas.


Are you saying that speculators no longer have a say in the price of oil?

No. But obviously they have nothing to do with what the price of oil is doing right now.

[Slava]

In reference to a few of you wanting me to elaborate on why its a scam. Plain and simple when the price of gas was dropping we heard all about how its a futures market and you have to wait for the cheaper gas to make it through the system.

Of course that doesn't apply here though....I mean sure the company paid for the gas a month ago, and the hurricane that shuts things down is today, but the company couldn't possibly sell based on their buying price?

Last night on the news Michael Irvin was trying to justify this one as well. His comment was that due to the increased prices it would be impossible for the oil companies to sell for cheaper.

btw, the comment about stock prices is not even in the same realm (unless you mean to suggest that some stocks are off the mark with their values...because that is in direct correlation here).

In any event I think that the oil industry is pulling the wool over our eyes in a number of ways. I still have no idea how they can never predict supply and demand correctly despite years and years of running their industry. I also have no idea why the "driving season" catches them off guard every year, and on a consistent basis. We know that people are going to drive more, yet every year the refining capacity is not enough...go figure.

[Dion]

No, they set their prices according to the supply that is currently available. Obviously, there is a shortage of gas right now, so the price automatically goes up.

This isn't 'new'....its the way a free-market operates.

I would disagree as i believe these latest set of increases were based on the worst case sinerio of refineries being down for an extended period of time

Uhhhh, I think they already HAVE accessed the damage, and realize that it might take a while to get the refineries back online, hence the sudden jump in prices.

Price increases happened before Ike hit the refineries and the resulting damage report. They anticipated a worst case sinerio and got it right this time.

There were Emergency Services in the US who were told the the day before the hurricane hit Texas to come fill up all their cars because there was going to be a huge shortage of gas.

That's my point. Oil comapnies raised prices anticipating that Texas drivers would use up what supply they had left. The real shortage came after people filled up thier vehicles.

[Azure]

That's my point. Oil comapnies raised prices anticipating that Texas drivers would use up what supply they had left. The real shortage came after people filled up thier vehicles.

Yeah, except there actually WAS a shortage of gas.

Hence why the Emergency Services were called to fill everything up to make sure THEY weren't unable to do their job.

I talked to a few people down there, Florida, and some of the other Eastern Provinces, they said that there were gas stations without any gas. Obviously those stations would raise their prices like crazy to try and keep people from buying so it would last longer.

[Dion]

In any event I think that the oil industry is pulling the wool over our eyes in a number of ways. I still have no idea how they can never predict supply and demand correctly despite years and years of running their industry. I also have no idea why the "driving season" catches them off guard every year, and on a consistent basis. We know that people are going to drive more, yet every year the refining capacity is not enough...go figure.

Part of the problem is refineries have to shut down for maintince and are unable to make gasoline. Then there's also the sinerio they were talking about on CNN where refineries cut back on gasoline production at this time of year to focus more of thier efforts on making heating oil. We need more refineries.

[Azure]

In any event I think that the oil industry is pulling the wool over our eyes in a number of ways. I still have no idea how they can never predict supply and demand correctly despite years and years of running their industry. I also have no idea why the "driving season" catches them off guard every year, and on a consistent basis. We know that people are going to drive more, yet every year the refining capacity is not enough...go figure.

What exactly are they supposed to do about the 'driving' season? Increase production? It takes 3 years for a 1.09billion dollar project in the Alberta oilsands to go from 15,000 barrels per day, to 35,000 barrels per day.

[Dion]

Yeah, except there actually WAS a shortage of gas.

Hence why the Emergency Services were called to fill everything up to make sure THEY weren't unable to do their job.

I talked to a few people down there, Florida, and some of the other Eastern Provinces, they said that there were gas stations without any gas. Obviously those stations would raise their prices like crazy to try and keep people from buying so it would last longer.

If you didn't have the threat of Ike on the horizon you wouldn't have had a run on gasoline or a shortage for that matter.

ES was correct to what they did as they knew that a run on gasoline by Texans would create a shortage where many stations would run dry.

[Slava]

Part of the problem is refineries have to shut down for maintince and are unable to make gasoline. Then there's also the sinerio they were talking about on CNN where refineries cut back on gasoline production at this time of year to focus more of thier efforts on making heating oil. We need more refineries.


I know...and its a circular argument that really doesn't work on a message board (IMO). I guess the thing that drives me nuts about the whole thing is that this is an essential service (in my eyes) and the industry has us over the barrel.

[Dion]

I know...and its a circular argument that really doesn't work on a message board (IMO). I guess the thing that drives me nuts about the whole thing is that this is an essential service (in my eyes) and the industry has us over the barrel.

I agree with much of what you are saying. You would think Oil companies would be building more refineries. Then again more refineries means greater supply and less profit for these guys.

[Azure]

If you didn't have the threat of Ike on the horizon you wouldn't have had a run on gasoline or a shortage for that matter.


No kidding, because refineries wouldn't be shutdown and unable to produce gas.

I don't even see your point in all of this.

Most gas stations raised their prices like crazy because they realized there was going to be a shortage, plus, buying their next shipment of gas would have cost a LOT more.

So they tried to get the Average Joe to NOT go buy gas. Too bad most people are too stupid to realize that.

[Slava]

I agree with much of what you are saying. You would think Oil companies would be building more refineries. Then again more refineries means greater supply and less profit for these guys.

That is the entire problem right there. They have all of the power here, and there is no way that they cut into their profit margin unless regulations force them to do so.

[Azure]

Sigh.

Pretty sure someone posted a report here a few months ago that said that lack of refineries wasn't the problem.

[Dion]

No kidding, because refineries wouldn't be shutdown and unable to produce gas.

I don't even see your point in all of this.

Most gas stations raised their prices like crazy because they realized there was going to be a shortage, plus, buying their next shipment of gas would have cost a LOT more.

So they tried to get the Average Joe to NOT go buy gas. Too bad most people are too stupid to realize that.

My point is there was no shortage when ES and others went to fill thier tanks. It came after the pumps ran dry.

The price increase was not based on an actual shortage but rather an anticipated shortage.

[Azure]

My point is there was no shortage when ES and others went to fill thier tanks. It came after the pumps ran dry.

The price increase was not based on an actual shortage but rather an anticipated shortage.

Well, duh. They called ES prior to running out, to make SURE that their cars would be filled up first.

There was an actual shortage though. That was the reason for the prices being increased.

[Dion]

Sigh.

Pretty sure someone posted a report here a few months ago that said that lack of refineries wasn't the problem.

I find that hard to believe. I heard yesterday that gasoline supplies are at a 8 year low. Correct me if i'm wrong btw. Logic would dictate that if you have more refineries up and running they could increase they supply of gasoline.

[Dion]

Well, duh. They called ES prior to running out, to make SURE that their cars would be filled up first.

There was an actual shortage though. That was the reason for the prices being increased.

If there was a shortage ES would not have gotten all thier vehicles filled. Guess we're looking at it from different sides.

[Azure]

I find that hard to believe. I heard yesterday that gasoline supplies are at a 8 year low. Correct me if i'm wrong btw. Logic would dictate that if you have more refineries up and running they could increase they supply of gasoline.

I don't know the specifics. Flames07 could elaborate I think.

[Dion]

I don't know the specifics. Flames07 could elaborate I think.

Hopefully he posts the specifics as i would be curious as to what he has to say.

[Azure]

If there was a shortage ES would not have gotten all thier vehicles filled. Guess we're looking at it from different sides.

Huh?

There was a shortage, obviously. Hence the price increase. What exactly are you saying?

[Dion]

Huh?

There was a shortage, obviously. Hence the price increase. What exactly are you saying?

Why not increase the price after shortage occurs as opposed to before it happens.

[Azure]

Why not increase the price after shortage occurs as opposed to before it happens.

Increase the price of what? Gas you don't have to sell?

[Dion]

Increase the price of what? Gas you don't have to sell?

Increase the price of the next shipment that comes in.

[Azure]

Increase the price of the next shipment that comes in.

Provided there is one.

The 'shortage' might have something to do with it.

EDIT: Unless you mean the next shipment regardless, well, it would be kinda stupid to raise the prices next time around when most other stations have lowered theirs already.

[Dion]

Provided there is one.

The 'shortage' might have something to do with it.

When those refineries start running again there will still be a 'shortage' as they try to get all stations quotas filled. It will take 'time' to get them all up and running.

EDIT: Unless you mean the next shipment regardless, well, it would be kinda stupid to raise the prices next time around when most other stations have lowered theirs already.

Distributors set the retail prices of all stations under thier ownership. The prices will be uniform once the storm is over, and when supply returns to pre storm levels, prices will then drop in to previous levels.

[GGG]

Did Ike damage the refineries or will gas drop in the next few days

[Cowboy89]

In reference to a few of you wanting me to elaborate on why its a scam. Plain and simple when the price of gas was dropping we heard all about how its a futures market and you have to wait for the cheaper gas to make it through the system.

Of course that doesn't apply here though....I mean sure the company paid for the gas a month ago, and the hurricane that shuts things down is today, but the company couldn't possibly sell based on their buying price?

Last night on the news Michael Irvin was trying to justify this one as well. His comment was that due to the increased prices it would be impossible for the oil companies to sell for cheaper.

btw, the comment about stock prices is not even in the same realm (unless you mean to suggest that some stocks are off the mark with their values...because that is in direct correlation here).

In any event I think that the oil industry is pulling the wool over our eyes in a number of ways. I still have no idea how they can never predict supply and demand correctly despite years and years of running their industry. I also have no idea why the "driving season" catches them off guard every year, and on a consistent basis. We know that people are going to drive more, yet every year the refining capacity is not enough...go figure.

Driving season catches them off guard because there has not been excess capacity for years now. During "driving season" petroleum product stocks get ravaged and they cannot replenish them in time for the next season because there simply is not enough refining capacity. Building a new refinery or expanding a refinery takes years, and the economics on such only has made sense recently. Currently there is many plans for expansions in the works, but this cannot alleviate demand right now. Oil and gas is no more of a scam than anything else as they charge what the market will bear. No different from Sport Chek's prices on shoes. They don't owe you gasoline at cost, just like any other business doesn't owe you anything at their input cost either. The price of goods and services is the meeting of supply and demand and not refiners cost plus margin. If they can do it significantly cheaper than the input price it's just called good business.

As for anticipated supply shocks and why the price goes up before a hurricane as opposed to after. Once again using the stock price example, in the name of "fairness" would you sell a gold mining stock with producing assets in Canada at the same price as a week earlier after finding out information that there would be a significant chance that materially significant gold supplies would come off stream elsewhere? Of course you wouldn't and its the same thing you would be asking gasoline retailers in Canada to do.

And BTW the stock example does apply because new information can change the price outlook for stocks. When Hurricane Ike was in the middle of the Atlantic the chances of it disrupting refinery row in Texas was much lower than when it was in the gulf and on their doorstep. Gasoline commodity prices adjusted accordingly to projected Ike landfall forecasts. If the refineries are out for a significant amount of time then prices will increase even more, because the price you paid on Friday included the possibility of a scenario where they would not be down for too long. If it plays out that there's a major supply disruption then prices will be even higher.

[Draug]

I was in Sundre today, and gas was $1.299. Here, in Calgary, right across the street, its $1.399. What gives?

It seems to me that Calgarians are getting screwed.

[Sylvanfan]

I went down accross the line to Oroville Washington today and their prices didn't spike up on Friday like ours did in Osoyoos. The funny thing was that on Thursday the price came down 2 cents a liter only to go back up by 12 on Friday. Yet down in the US...the prices are the same. Even with our dollar being a bit weaker right now, it's still 35 cents a litre less to buy my gas in the US based on todays price. When the two currencies where equal it was usually in the 20-25 cent range.

[shane_c]

We jumped up to $1.431 on Saturday. It will be interesting to see what it goes down to since I don't believe there was damage to the refineries and since last I heard a barrel of oil was under $100. I'm guessing it won't go down to pre-Ike levels even though it should be less than that given it was $1.32 for a long time despite oil prices continually falling.

[KevanGuy]

I'm watching time shift here from Newfoundland and they just said on a News Break that gas in some place in Labrador hit $1.60L.

[Dion]

I was in Sundre today, and gas was $1.299. Here, in Calgary, right across the street, its $1.399. What gives?

It seems to me that Calgarians are getting screwed.

It's $1.38 here in High River.

[Flames in 07]

I agree with much of what you are saying. You would think Oil companies would be building more refineries. Then again more refineries means greater supply and less profit for these guys.

If they were profitable people would build more. Problem is that enviromentalists and regulators hate new refineries.

I remember that Richard branson guy was in Canada few years ago saying how he plans to build a refinery in N america, haven't heard from him since.

It's a free market Dion, if they make so much money, nothing is stopping anyone from building one if they are so profitable. The fact is they have done well the past couple years, but overall refining business has been quite poor.

[Flames in 07]

I find that hard to believe. I heard yesterday that gasoline supplies are at a 8 year low. Correct me if i'm wrong btw. Logic would dictate that if you have more refineries up and running they could increase they supply of gasoline.

That was me. It showed that refining in the last few months has been a poor business to be in, because at $130 WTI demand for oil products goes down, therefore everyone had to turn back rates. Which was the case for a small part in Canada but to a large part in the US. It was from the eia.

[Flames in 07]

People are wondering what the impacts of Ike are, well some producing capacity was shut in temorarily, however a larger impact is that a number of refineries turned down. Most made it through ok sans a few with no power and a smaller few that are a little underwater. Most will come back in the next several days but no refineries means no demand for crude which means WTI goes down and oil products goes up. A unique market scenario as everyone always sees a positive relationship of WTI to gasoline ... which is true most of the time.

[Flames in 07]

I don't know the specifics. Flames07 could elaborate I think.

yea inventories are low, but the big thing going into the weekend accross the continent is that nobody knew if Ike would be a big deal or not, so in anticipation they curbed demand ... essentially to those who demand it more.

But as I learned today a large retailer had some kind of distribution problem over the weekend where gasoline wasn't getting trucked to retail sites ... not sure if it was a trucking strike or what, but that probably contributed to pricing in Cgy. But I still think a big datapoint is PCAN going down again in Oct.

[Flames in 07]

One last thing, is that although the conversation has shifted to being quite balanced here which is good, the gasoline retail industry has been likely the most scrutized business in Canada. if there was any shenanigans, it would have been found. Any MP who wants to be PM would be the one to find the smoking gun.

The industry did it to itself imo because no other consumable is priced on every street corner in the nation, which makes consumers unbelievably price sensitive. But overall it is a reasonably complex business, which the media has no interest in correctly portraying. Which is a shame, you have to dig quite deep to get real information if you don't live in the industry.

[Dion]

That was me. It showed that refining in the last few months has been a poor business to be in, because at $130 WTI demand for oil products goes down, therefore everyone had to turn back rates. Which was the case for a small part in Canada but to a large part in the US. It was from the eia.

Thanks! I appreciate the explanation.

[Dion]

One last thing, is that although the conversation has shifted to being quite balanced here which is good, the gasoline retail industry has been likely the most scrutized business in Canada. if there was any shenanigans, it would have been found. Any MP who wants to be PM would be the one to find the smoking gun.



There was some shenanigans at the retail level earlier this year.

MONTREAL -- The Competition Bureau has charged 13 people and 11 companies -- in what it called a cartel -- with gas-price fixing in four different Quebec cities.

The companies that were charged are: Les Petroles Therrien Inc., operating under the Petro-T banner, and Distributions Petrolieres Therrien Inc. ($179,000), and Ultramar Inc. ($1,850,000). One individual, Jacques Ouellet, an employee of Ultramar, also pleaded guilty and was fined $50,000.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=583036

[Flames in 07]

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mopueus2m.htm

this is a different survey (I think) but same story.

[Dion]

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mopueus2m.htm

this is a different survey (I think) but same story.

Thanks. I'll give it a look see :)

[Flames in 07]

There was some shenanigans at the retail level earlier this year.

MONTREAL -- The Competition Bureau has charged 13 people and 11 companies -- in what it called a cartel -- with gas-price fixing in four different Quebec cities.

The companies that were charged are: Les Petroles Therrien Inc., operating under the Petro-T banner, and Distributions Petrolieres Therrien Inc. ($179,000), and Ultramar Inc. ($1,850,000). One individual, Jacques Ouellet, an employee of Ultramar, also pleaded guilty and was fined $50,000.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=583036

Right and as a I said before outside a few retailers here and there the industry has been clean ... at least from the perspective of blaming large oil companies.

I little OT but what many people don't differentiate is that retail gasoline is not similar to exploration and production. Retail is a very cut throat low margin, low profitability business. People don't make money in retail gasoline, and the large oil companies that people associate with the retialing (hard to blame them since their logos are up everywhere) are probably less involved that most would think. In Canada for the most part they set pricing guidelines or pricing mandates, but the facilities are run and sometimes owned by independent businesses.

[Azure]

yea inventories are low, but the big thing going into the weekend accross the continent is that nobody knew if Ike would be a big deal or not, so in anticipation they curbed demand ... essentially to those who demand it more.

But as I learned today a large retailer had some kind of distribution problem over the weekend where gasoline wasn't getting trucked to retail sites ... not sure if it was a trucking strike or what, but that probably contributed to pricing in Cgy. But I still think a big datapoint is PCAN going down again in Oct.

Well, there were gas stations running out of gas all over the US right after Ike hit.

Obviously there was a problem.

[Flames in 07]

Well, there were gas stations running out of gas all over the US right after Ike hit.

Obviously there was a problem.

well If it is that short after Ike then it wasn't because of refineries not producing, probably a short term problem like getting the products from distribution centers to retail sites, or maybe pipelines shut down until after Ike is gone.

The continent wasn't running out of gasoline this past week, if it was gas would be $5 per l or higher.

[Azure]

well If it is that short after Ike then it wasn't because of refineries not producing, probably a short term problem like getting the products from distribution centers to retail sites, or maybe pipelines shut down until after Ike is gone.

The continent wasn't running out of gasoline this past week, if it was gas would be $5 per l or higher.

Some refineries were shut down for the time being, so there was a supply issue for a while. But, from what I'm reading there wasn't any serious damage, and the price surge was due to a temporary lapse in supply. Nothing serious.

Oil hit $97 today apparently.

EDIT: Make that $94.

[Flames in 07]

Some refineries were shut down for the time being, so there was a supply issue for a while. But, from what I'm reading there wasn't any serious damage, and the price surge was due to a temporary lapse in supply. Nothing serious.

Oil hit $97 today apparently.

It was just over 94 at the end of the work day in after hours trading.

[flamesaresmokin]

Right and as a I said before outside a few retailers here and there the industry has been clean ... at least from the perspective of blaming large oil companies.

I little OT but what many people don't differentiate is that retail gasoline is not similar to exploration and production. Retail is a very cut throat low margin, low profitability business. People don't make money in retail gasoline, and the large oil companies that people associate with the retialing (hard to blame them since their logos are up everywhere) are probably less involved that most would think. In Canada for the most part they set pricing guidelines or pricing mandates, but the facilities are run and sometimes owned by independent businesses.

Then why is it we are told this is why gas is so expensive every time oil rises 5 dollars a barrel? Canadians are paying nearly 5 dollars a US gallon when Americans are paying 3.80 for the same product. Even Hawaii is selling gas for the equivalent of 1.10/L....Hawaii has cheaper gas! Sure there are more fuel taxes and currency exchanges for us and all but that is a drastic difference in price. 1.20 per gallon equates to about an extra 20 bucks to fill a 55 litre tank between the two countries.

Something really doesn't ad up.

[Flames in 07]

Then why is it we are told this is why gas is so expensive every time oil rises 5 dollars a barrel? Canadians are paying nearly 5 dollars a US gallon when Americans are paying 3.80 for the same product. Even Hawaii is selling gas for the equivalent of 1.10/L....Hawaii has cheaper gas! Sure there are more fuel taxes and currency exchanges for us and all but that is a drastic difference in price. 1.20 per gallon equates to about an extra 20 bucks to fill a 55 litre tank between the two countries.

Something really doesn't ad up.

you just added up what you think doesn't add up.

[flamey_mcflame]

It's amazing if you look at an xy chart and the lines between oil price and gas price move in unison when the price of oil goes up. See oil and gas prices from June 2007 to July 2008. Now that oil has dipped to 95 dollars, watch how the lines diverge. It's as if the two lines do not have any relation whatsoever. I know there is a word to describe this strange scientific phenomenon, let me think of it.......Oh right, Oligopoly.

[Flames in 07]

It's amazing if you look at an xy chart and the lines between oil price and gas price move in unison when the price of oil goes up. See oil and gas prices from June 2007 to July 2008. Now that oil has dipped to 95 dollars, watch how the lines diverge. It's as if the two lines do not have any relation whatsoever. I know there is a word to describe this strange scientific phenomenon, let me think of it.......Oh right, Oligopoly.

which xy chart, let's see it.

[Flames89]

which xy chart, let's see it.

Think flamey_mcflame is a little off on his conspiracy theory here - else we should have been paying around $1.80 in June.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/e1b88c3ca5.png

[flamesaresmokin]

you just added up what you think doesn't add up.

No way that 5 to 10 cents on the exchange (which was more like 30 to 40 a few years ago while we still had very low gas) and 15 cents fuel/gst taxes add up to $1.20/US G difference in price. Average US gas is .95-1.00 a litre right now and that does not come close to the 1.40/L with the 20 cent tax amount per litre we pay.

If the most isolated island in the world can sell gas cheaper then us (1.10/L) you cannot deny that we are paying way more then we should be. Somehow now the price of oil is not linked to gas (after that being rammed down our throats the last 5 years for the reasoning behind high pump prices) but as soon as it hits 140 again it sure will be.

[Wookie]

I'm even suprised with that graph, looks almost like the opposite has occured. The price should have been much higher at the peak. Its like a cushio was built into it to soften the blow.

Could have to do with the USD tanking.

[habernac]

and now down to 116.9 in places. I have to say this is the quickest I've seen prices fall, maybe they're finally getting the hint?

[Flames in 07]

and now down to 116.9 in places. I have to say this is the quickest I've seen prices fall, maybe they're finally getting the hint?

Who's getting the hint? The oil companies got the hint that you don't like $1.40 gasoline?

You think they don't know that consumers don't like high prices ... a concept known to everyone EXCEPT gasoline marketers? I mean why didn't I just sent an email to imperial and let them know that I would prefer cheaper gas.

The price is driven by market fundamentals, same as every other commodity in the unregulated (read communist or otherwise interfered) world.

It's coming down because a) crude keeps falling and b) Ike didn't do as much damage as people thought it would to refineries ... and maybe a few others that are not blatently obvious to everyone.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your note, but if you think it's as simple as someone getting the hint ... well ... it's a big complicated world out there then.

[Flames in 07]

No way that 5 to 10 cents on the exchange (which was more like 30 to 40 a few years ago while we still had very low gas) and 15 cents fuel/gst taxes add up to $1.20/US G difference in price. Average US gas is .95-1.00 a litre right now and that does not come close to the 1.40/L with the 20 cent tax amount per litre we pay.

If the most isolated island in the world can sell gas cheaper then us (1.10/L) you cannot deny that we are paying way more then we should be. Somehow now the price of oil is not linked to gas (after that being rammed down our throats the last 5 years for the reasoning behind high pump prices) but as soon as it hits 140 again it sure will be.

Perfect we are going to run with your reasoning here ... tell me more about your isolated island. Tell me about their tax structure for gasoline versus Canada.

Further tell me about what refineries serve hawaii, and the cost of bring the crude to market (If you take this on you'll find out how cheap it is to move crude and products around on water vs many pipelines) and also tell me about this markets dependance on the operation of specific refinieries ... which is to say Alberta is completely dependant on all 3 refineries in Edmonton running ... how about Hawaii do they have the same dependance.

Now you clearly know everything so let's just go through all these factors and we'll see if we can't make up the difference in price. Can wait to hear your reply.

[Flames in 07]

I'm even suprised with that graph, looks almost like the opposite has occured. The price should have been much higher at the peak. Its like a cushio was built into it to soften the blow.

Yep. Funny how Global didn't pick up that story.

[habernac]

Who's getting the hint? The oil companies got the hint that you don't like $1.40 gasoline?

You think they don't know that consumers don't like high prices ... a concept known to everyone EXCEPT gasoline marketers? I mean why didn't I just sent an email to imperial and let them know that I would prefer cheaper gas.

The price is driven by market fundamentals, same as every other commodity in the unregulated (read communist or otherwise interfered) world.

It's coming down because a) crude keeps falling and b) Ike didn't do as much damage as people thought it would to refineries ... and maybe a few others that are not blatently obvious to everyone.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your note, but if you think it's as simple as someone getting the hint ... well ... it's a big complicated world out there then.

well, it seems to be coming down in price faster than I remember it doing so in the past after events like this. But you seem to be Mr Know-it-all on this so carry on.....

[Flames in 07]

well, it seems to be coming down in price faster than I remember it doing so in the past after events like this. But you seem to be Mr Know-it-all on this so carry on.....

Past events like this? which events? The scenario where a refinery in edmonton is planning a turn around next month and the possibility of a hurricane knocking out a bunch of refining capacity in the Gulf? I don't know it all because I can't recall a time like this.

It went up in a hurry and back down about as fast, because supply is tight and the certainty over the next few weeks was low. Simple as that.

It wasn't that they got the hint from consumers that they are rather disturbed with spending more money for something they are used to getting for less.