Expansion ???

[Oxygen-Supply]

Where to Expand?

Hanover Memorial Field 20 416
Charleston Laidley Field 18 600
Louisville Papa John's Cardinal Stadium 45 000
Iowa City Kinnick Stadium 70 397
Lincoln Memorial Stadium 72 700
Spokane Joe Albi Stadium 28 646
Omaha???
Corvallis Reser Stadium 35 362

Quebec City PEPS Stadium 18 500
Halifax Huskies Stadium 9 000
Kingston Richardson Stadium 10 258

[Oxygen-Supply]

or

Orlando
Las Vegas

They had over 20,000 Average for the XFL

[Thunderball]

At first, I'd bring in Spokane. I mean, they're a fairly decent sized market with about 450k in its metro, and close enough to Vancouver and Calgary to attract attention. Rumour was when I last inquired into expansion that the owners of Joe Albi are looking for a big-time tenant and the CFL is quite attractive to them. Plus, Joe Albi is about the right size for CFL football at just under 30k.

Next place I'd consider is Louisville... they have a stadium more than large enough for CFL... this city is pushing it location wise, though it is close enough to Toronto and Hamilton and have a good population base.

Then I'd go to Quebec City... not sure if Quebec is capable of adequately supporting two teams, but its a larger Canadian market with a smaller stadium, but probably big enough for football.

Halifax and Kingston are too small, while Halifax does have 375k, it doesn't seem to have the money to expand the stadium and I question the disposable income about that people have there.. and as for Kingston, they are way too small at 157k... and their stadium would need too much work to expand to make it viable.

Orlando is way too far from CFL to attempt, and as for Las Vegas... the Posse didn't do that great last time. US expansion has to be very close to the border to make sense.

[the lockout sucks]

The CFL would obviously like to add one more team to balance things out, and the two front-runners would be without a doubt Halifax and Quebec City. Unfortunatley there isn't a sufficient place to play in either center, so we won't see a ten team league until somehow that issue is resolved.

[calf]

No no no to US expansion. :tdown:

Wright also said the CFL would like to add a 10th franchise by 2008 - preferably in Atlantic Canada - but only if a 25,000-seat stadium was in place and the league was convinced the new franchise would work.

Halifax, Moncton, Quebec City and London, Ont., have all been mentioned before as potential expansion centres but none has a suitable stadium in place.

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/news_story.asp?ID=105144&hubName=cfl

[calf]

Originally posted by mileflames@Nov 21 2004, 02:30 AM
or

Orlando
Las Vegas

They had over 20,000 Average for the XFL
CFL's tried Las Vegas already, and they had to play their final games in Edmonton due to poor attendance (and they only lasted that season, I believe).

[JiriHrdina]

The American expansion is what reduced my love for the CFL to start with, I really hope they don't go back there.

[Thunderball]

Proper US expansion really can be successful... last time was far too poorly thought out... putting places in the Southern US in the CFL was a bad, bad idea.

Don't forget how well Baltimore did in the CFL... only reason they moved to Montreal was the acquisition of an NFL franchise.

Absolutely no way Halifax or Moncton ever get a team if there's any intelligence running the league... small markets and poor provinces with no stadiums.

London, ON is a big stretch too, cause their stadium is way too small, and the investment capital for a team isn't there.

Like I said, Quebec City is a big "what if?"... for a city of 750k, a reputation of not supporting sports makes me question putting a team there.

Okanagan Valley is still too small, though a good place 10-15 years down the road.

If you want a strong franchise, its more than likely gonna be in the Northern US, close to the border, like Spokane.

[calgaryred]

US expansion is a bad move to me and the CFL commish sees it the same way. In America the canadian content ratio is illegal right away teams in the south can be better. With the right coaching staff and QB these teams would be the Detroit Red Wings and Colorado Avs' of the CFL. I'm not cool with that it's bad enough in the NHL. Baltimore Stallions were a taste of what an unfair balance can do to a league. The 1994 Grey Cup game was great Canada won in 1995 we didn't and I guarantee if the NFL didn't move into Baltimore it would have been terrible for Canadian franchises. When the CFL had a meeting kicking out the remaining american franchise San Antonio I was thrilled! It was like Canada got back the CFL we took for granted. I'm very opposed to going back down south to a market that doesn't care for our brand of football. It's like the NHL trying to win the hearts of the american in Nashville, we all think that's pointless. I say the league should put more exhibition games in Halifax, Quebec City and London to see how the market reacts to the professional game in their communties. They should get season ticket buyers to pay in advance to make sure a certain quota buys a portion of seats to guarantee a fan base. In the end I know the league wants a team in the Martitimes and it's been reported a team is being considered either for the Moncton or the Halifax market. Time will tell but I hope the CFL stays Canadian because it's our only true Canadian professional sports that's only in our nation to enjoy, I want to keep it like that.

[Oxygen-Supply]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Nov 21 2004, 09:02 AM

Then I'd go to Quebec City... not sure if Quebec is capable of adequately supporting two teams, but its a larger Canadian market with a smaller stadium, but probably big enough for football.


What about using the Temp. Stands they use at the gray cup, till they have the interest to expand or build.

[Thunderball]

Originally posted by mileflames+Nov 21 2004, 01:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (mileflames @ Nov 21 2004, 01:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Thunderball@Nov 21 2004, 09:02 AM

Then I'd go to Quebec City... not sure if Quebec is capable of adequately supporting two teams, but its a larger Canadian market with a smaller stadium, but probably big enough for football.


What about using the Temp. Stands they use at the gray cup, till they have the interest to expand or build. [/b][/quote]
They probably wouldn't need the temp stands for a while... I can't see two Quebec teams drawing more than 20k each, assuming both do well...

As for having American teams being unfair... Baltimore lost in 1994, and the Stampeders outright choked in 1995... that simple. I think creating strong US franchises is a good thing, so they win once in a while, heaven forfend...

After Quebec City, Canada is plain out of viable markets... Saskatchewan is a VERY big stretch as it is, let alone Moncton, Halifax and Kingston. London is not a bad market, but with their short-sighted stadium, good luck getting investors.

I think San Antonio was too far south for the CFL anyway. Personally, I think its still the CFL, and if people get ansy about stuff being "Canadian", time to look around you... its only a matter of time before the NFL comes up here, and MLS take a Canadian franchise or two and then the US won't have any purely US pro leagues either. Think they care?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Nov 21 2004, 03:21 PM

As for having American teams being unfair... Baltimore lost in 1994, and the Stampeders outright choked in 1995... that simple. I think creating strong US franchises is a good thing, so they win once in a while, heaven forfend...


Yes, but the problem with US franchises was they were not playing under the same rules as the Canadian teams. They were allowed to stock their teams exclusively with American talent which is a distinct advantage. The Canadian ratio is part of the CFL and part of building a good team and since that's not possible in the US, in my view American expansion is not practical.

[calf]

Originally posted by JiriHrdina@Nov 21 2004, 03:23 PM
Yes, but the problem with US franchises was they were not playing under the same rules as the Canadian teams. They were allowed to stock their teams exclusively with American talent which is a distinct advantage. The Canadian ratio is part of the CFL and part of building a good team and since that's not possible in the US, in my view American expansion is not practical.
I totally agree with this. I love how the CFL demands there be a certain amount of homegrown talent in the league. The American teams not having Canadians just isn't part of the game. Like Jiri said, not practical

[calgaryred]

That american expansion era was a joke remember the 400 people that showed up in Las Vegas, or the stadium in Memphis stadium that wasn't even big enough to handle a CFL field, singing O Canada to the theme of O Christmas tree, or the coach of the Mad Dogs whining that they need to change the name of our league and adopt more american rules like four downs. It was a joke if anything American expansion made the CFL even more small time.

[calgaryred]

oops double post

[Thunderball]

Originally posted by JiriHrdina+Nov 21 2004, 02:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JiriHrdina @ Nov 21 2004, 02:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Thunderball@Nov 21 2004, 03:21 PM

As for having American teams being unfair... Baltimore lost in 1994, and the Stampeders outright choked in 1995... that simple. I think creating strong US franchises is a good thing, so they win once in a while, heaven forfend...


Yes, but the problem with US franchises was they were not playing under the same rules as the Canadian teams. They were allowed to stock their teams exclusively with American talent which is a distinct advantage. The Canadian ratio is part of the CFL and part of building a good team and since that's not possible in the US, in my view American expansion is not practical. [/b][/quote]
They weren't playing with the exact same rules, but that Baltimore franchise was very, very well built... all you have to do is look at the successes Montreal has had since they took the team to see the core was in place.

I totally agree with you guys that the first US foray, with Baltimore as the exception, was a disaster. Of course, Baltimore was the closest one to Canada too, which I don't think is a coincidence. I don't think that means we need to completely write it off. Proper analysis is needed to do it properly.

Attempting to ensure Canadian roster players is something that the CFL would have to try to make stick in the US next time.

That being said, I've never been a huge fan of the Canadian roster requirement... I've always seen it as too much tampering, and that the most talented should get to play. I'm sure a lot of them would still be Canadian, regardless of rules.

If anything, removing the requirements would be a needed kick in the pants to get CIS more in line to the caliber of ball (not rules, just quality) being played in US colleges. I don't know about you, but watching the Dinos play anyone is pretty painful. The game I last saw was Dinos/Huskies, and it was unimpressive on both sides.

[the lockout sucks]

I totally agree with you guys that the first US foray, with Baltimore as the exception, was a disaster.If last time they attempted to expand into the US only one of seven teams was even moderately successful, why would you try to do the exact same thing again?

They probably wouldn't need the temp stands for a while... I can't see two Quebec teams drawing more than 20k each, assuming both do well...What you're saying is you'd put a team in Quebec City even though you assume they wouldn't even be able to drawn twenty-thousand fans a game?

If anything, removing the requirements would be a needed kick in the pants to get CIS more in line to the caliber of ball (not rules, just quality) being played in US colleges.How would the quality of CIS football improve if less of the athletes from those teams have a chance of landing a job on day in the CFL?

[calgaryred]

Originally posted by Thunderball@Nov 21 2004, 04:19 PM


Attempting to ensure Canadian roster players is something that the CFL would have to try to make stick in the US next time.


It's not up to the CFL to make sure canadians are made to be on american rosters. In the United States the canadian ratio rule is illegal and there's no way to get around it. Otherwise canadian and american employers would make penniless immigrants sign waivers allowing them to work in sweat shops for ten hours a day making a nickel. If it's against the law there's nothing the CFL can do about it. So if the CFL does down south canadian franchises are always going to be at a disadvantage. The Candian football league has no interest in expanding to the states thank god keep it Canadian.