2007 CONCACAF Gold Cup

[ricoFlame]

Great result for the men's national side in the gold cup opener against Costa Rica, coming up with a 2-1 win over the world #52 who appeared in the world cup finals in germany. they are the third ranked team in CONCACAF, canada is currently #11. nice start.

[Addick]

Great result for the men's national side in the gold cup opener against Costa Rica, coming up with a 2-1 win over the world #52 who appeared in the world cup finals in germany. they are the third ranked team in CONCACAF, canada is currently #11. nice start.

Well, I was just about to go watch that game...

[ricoFlame]

Well, I was just about to go watch that game...

huh? i just watched it on sportsnet...my bad, sorry. really good game though, worth watching.

[troutman]

Are all the "A" teams at the Gold Cup? I think MEX and USA don't really send their best sides.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/viewArticle.asp?id=3805

Here are the rosters, USA and Mexico look to have brought most of their A guys. Raphael Marquez being the most notable Mexican along with Salcido and the USA brought Bocanegra, Beasley, Donovan, Johnson.....lineups look pretty legit to me.

[Addick]

huh? i just watched it on sportsnet...my bad, sorry. really good game though, worth watching.

No worries, it's all good. It took away my excuse to not study. The result was mighty interesting; it even found its way onto Soccernet!

[ricoFlame]

http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/viewArticle.asp?id=3805

Here are the rosters, USA and Mexico look to have brought most of their A guys. Raphael Marquez being the most notable Mexican along with Salcido and the USA brought Bocanegra, Beasley, Donovan, Johnson.....lineups look pretty legit to me.

jared borgetti is a very notible mexican player as well.

[troutman]

CD Guadalajara must be a real good team. 6 players on the national roster.

[Locke]

Are all the "A" teams at the Gold Cup? I think MEX and USA don't really send their best sides.

They will be sending the squads they want actually playing at the World Cup in 2010 this time, especially after the previous World Cup debacle.

Too many of these teams juggle their rosters all through qualifying just trying to make it because they know that once they qualify all their #1 guys that are based in Europe will come and play in the actual tournament.

Brazil is notorious at this strategy, they used over 60 different players to qualify for the World cup in 2002 and barely made it, then all their top guys played in the tournament and went on to win.

Brazil can get away with this, most teams cant. England used to do this alot too, and now they're in trouble and what do they do? Call their big names in early to bail them out.

Locke.

[KTown]

hopefully guzman continues to play for Canada in the near future, he's got some talent and he will only get better.

No more of this Canadian players playing for other countries cough Hargreaves cough

[VANFLAMESFAN]

jared borgetti is a very notible mexican player as well.

Borgetti retired from international play. But yeah, he was very good, I still remember his goal from the 02 world cup quite vividly.....Long cross come in, it doesn't look like he is going to get to it, but he jumps, contorts his body in mid air to head it over the goalie and in......beautiful goal. Against Italy or Ecuador if memory serves me right, I know Croatia was the other team in that group, but it wasnt against them.

[rubecube]

hopefully guzman continues to play for Canada in the near future, he's got some talent and he will only get better.

No more of this Canadian players playing for other countries cough Hargreaves cough

Yeah, I mean what kind of a jerk wouldn't want to play for a team that cut him 3 times?

[ricoFlame]

Borgetti retired from international play. But yeah, he was very good, I still remember his goal from the 02 world cup quite vividly.....Long cross come in, it doesn't look like he is going to get to it, but he jumps, contorts his body in mid air to head it over the goalie and in......beautiful goal. Against Italy or Ecuador if memory serves me right, I know Croatia was the other team in that group, but it wasnt against them.

he's listed on that final roster list, oh yeah, and that beauty goal was vs. the azzuri

[ricoFlame]

Borgetti retired from international play. But yeah, he was very good, I still remember his goal from the 02 world cup quite vividly.....Long cross come in, it doesn't look like he is going to get to it, but he jumps, contorts his body in mid air to head it over the goalie and in......beautiful goal. Against Italy or Ecuador if memory serves me right, I know Croatia was the other team in that group, but it wasnt against them.

dude, borgetti scored for mexico tonight in their 2-1 win over cuba, i don't think he's retired from international play.

[ricoFlame]

tonight @ 5:00 MST: Canada Vs. Guadaloupe on sportsnet.

[ricoFlame]

oh man, 2-1 Guadaloupe at the half. jeesh.

[ricoFlame]

now a 2-1 final...unacceptable.

[Thunderball]

now a 2-1 final...unacceptable.

Don't look too surprised. Canada is not a good team... at all.

They surprised a sleeping and lousy looking Costa Rica, and when faced by even a marginal challenge, looked poor.

Its too bad... there are a few players on the team (like De Guzman) who are pretty good players with a lot of potential that can never be realized internationally when they wear the red and white.

[troutman]

I'm not sure Guadeloupe is even a country. My atlas says it is a French Overseas Department. Only 2,880 square miles. Along with Martinique, the combined population is only 823,000.

No wonder CAN is so low in the FIFA rankings. To be fair, CAN had most of the ball in the second half, and should have scored a couple of times. GPE was accused of disgusting embellishment and time wasting by Forrest. GPE had about 4 serious "injuries" in the 2nd half, and the ref could have added 10+ minutes of injury time, instead of the 6 he gave. This is the part of soccer that drives me crazy, and I wish FIFA and CONCACAF could clean it up.

The atmosphere was electric, only because the Orange Bowl was filling up with fans for the Costa Rica- Haiti match.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/2007/06/09/4248582-cp.html

[ricoFlame]

I'm not sure Guadeloupe is even a country. My atlas says it is a French Overseas Department. Only 2,880 square miles. Along with Martinique, the combined population is only 823,000.



they're not a country, they can't compete in FIFA competitions and thus have no FIFA world ranking. the compete in CONCACAF tourneys only.

[KTown]

I'm an avid soccer player and its quite sad to see us always lose to nobodies. I can accept losing to USA and Mexico, but we should be crushing every other country in the CONCACAF region

[ricoFlame]

Canada vs. Haiti tonight @ Midnight MST on sportsnet...i think i'll look for the highlights tommorow rather than stay up for this high profile matchup.

[troutman]

Canada vs. Haiti tonight @ Midnight MST on sportsnet...i think i'll look for the highlights tommorow rather than stay up for this high profile matchup.

What about GOL TV? Will they have it on earlier?

[ricoFlame]

nm

[ricoFlame]

What about GOL TV? Will they have it on earlier?

looks like the tape delayed footage is on tommorow at 9:00 pm.

[Locke]

Don't look too surprised. Canada is not a good team... at all.

They surprised a sleeping and lousy looking Costa Rica, and when faced by even a marginal challenge, looked poor.

Its too bad... there are a few players on the team (like De Guzman) who are pretty good players with a lot of potential that can never be realized internationally when they wear the red and white.

Pretty much, yeah. Its brutal, there is a lot of work to do and no one willing to do anything about it. What Canada should consider is ponying up the dough to pick up a really accomplished, well established coach who has the ability to influence the system from the bottom up.

Look what a move like that did for South Korea when they picked up Guus Hiddink. Overnight they turned into competitors who took down some big teams.


I'm not sure Guadeloupe is even a country. My atlas says it is a French Overseas Department. Only 2,880 square miles. Along with Martinique, the combined population is only 823,000.

No wonder CAN is so low in the FIFA rankings. To be fair, CAN had most of the ball in the second half, and should have scored a couple of times. GPE was accused of disgusting embellishment and time wasting by Forrest. GPE had about 4 serious "injuries" in the 2nd half, and the ref could have added 10+ minutes of injury time, instead of the 6 he gave. This is the part of soccer that drives me crazy, and I wish FIFA and CONCACAF could clean it up.

CONCACAF has exactly zero authority to do anything of the sort. FIFA can do it, but it would require a monumental amount of support considering many coaches use it as part of their strategy and would thusly be vehemently opposed to such action.

This is the real problem, its gotten too much about winning. The end result is all that counts and not how you got there.

I coach a kids team, and we played a team whose coach employed tactics like that. It was a; "if you lose the ball make the ref think that the guy who won it basically raped you."

Man, I'm glad my team isnt like that, but it starts with the coach and trickles down. And the governing body at some point does have to answer to the coaches and the rest of the people they 'govern.'

Locke.

[octothorp]

Very nice first half for the Canadians against Haiti:

http://www.terra.com/deportes/envivo/haiti_canada_11062007en.html

[Machiavelli]

Very nice first half for the Canadians against Haiti:

http://www.terra.com/deportes/envivo/haiti_canada_11062007en.html

Thanks. It's also live right now on #######, channel 6543.

[ricoFlame]

well, there you go, canada move on to the quarter finals...i guess they did what they had to do vs. haiti tonight.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

dude, borgetti scored for mexico tonight in their 2-1 win over cuba, i don't think he's retired from international play.

I swore I remember reading he retired from intl play.....oh well

[troutman]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/Canada/2007/06/11/4253240-ap.html

Dwayne De Rosario scored both goals in a three-minute span of the first half.

De Rosario gave Canada a 1-0 lead with his first goal in the 32nd minute. Paul Stalteri's pass from the right wing found an open De Rosario near the end line of the far post. From a difficult angle, De Rosario found enough spacing to beat Haiti goalkeeper Gabart Fenelon with a shot which landed inside the far post.

Three minutes later, De Rosario converted on a penalty kick after Pierre-Richard Bruny fouled Issey Nakajima-Farran inside the penalty area. Fenelon guessed correctly but it still couldn't stop De Rosario's shot which landed low inside the left post.

I think CAN gets El Salvador or Guatemala in the quarter finals (both winnable games you would think).

[Maserati]

well done Canada to reach the quarterfinals..Trinidad do crap well expeced considering the team they sent..

[Maserati]

I'm an avid soccer player and its quite sad to see us always lose to nobodies. I can accept losing to USA and Mexico, but we should be crushing every other country in the CONCACAF region
is it only in N.America it is called soccer?
dont underestimate those nobodies cause their players play differently as for some of them football is the only way out of poverty etc so that is alot of incentive to play at their best..we'll see how the WC Qualifiers go when they start.

[Maserati]

I swore I remember reading he retired from intl play.....oh well
lol these guys retire and then come out of retirement to play again

I think CAN gets El Salvador or Guatemala in the quarter finals (both winnable games you would think).
football too unpredictable:confused:

[troutman]

CAN rose 38 spots to #56 in FIFA's rankings today.

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/lastranking/gender=m/fullranking.html#confederation=0&rank=158&page=2

[Table 5]

#56! Not too frickin' bad, Canada! woot.

[FlamingLonghorn]

I'm not trying to rain on anybodies parade but those fifa rankings are so terrible. You have one upset win and you jump a ridiculous amount of spots (not talking about Canada just in general). Games that not even a top squad plays affects the rankings too much. The US was top 10 going into the World Cup look how that ended up. They shouldn't rank teams who honestly cares? Just award the teams the cups they win and that should show who is dominating.

[troutman]

Canada will play Guatemala.

[ricoFlame]

Canada will play Guatemala.

tape delayed by three hours on sportsnet at 2:00 MST Saturday.

[Maserati]

gol tv shuld have it live i hope

[evman150]

Ranked ahead of the 2010 World Cup host South Africa.

[Locke]

I'm not trying to rain on anybodies parade but those fifa rankings are so terrible. You have one upset win and you jump a ridiculous amount of spots (not talking about Canada just in general). Games that not even a top squad plays affects the rankings too much. The US was top 10 going into the World Cup look how that ended up. They shouldn't rank teams who honestly cares? Just award the teams the cups they win and that should show who is dominating.

Pretty much, but the rankings will always be there. To be fair, they just totally reworked the ranking system to make it even more wildly unpredictable and irrelevant.

Ranked ahead of the 2010 World Cup host South Africa.

That just proves Sowa's point, and it is a good point. South Africa would tear Canada apart if they both fielded their best teams. Canada gets huge breaks because we play against 2-3rd line Squads. Jumping 38 spots because we posted wins against Costa Rica and Haiti? What about Losing to Guadalupe. Armenia jumped 48 spots for beating Poland 1-0?

Those rankings are wildly inaccurate.

[ricoFlame]

Pretty much, but the rankings will always be there. To be fair, they just totally reworked the ranking system to make it even more wildly unpredictable and irrelevant.



That just proves Sowa's point, and it is a good point. South Africa would tear Canada apart if they both fielded their best teams. Canada gets huge breaks because we play against 2-3rd line Squads. Jumping 38 spots because we posted wins against Costa Rica and Haiti? What about Losing to Guadalupe. Armenia jumped 48 spots for beating Poland 1-0?

Those rankings are wildly inaccurate.

not to nitpick, but they also tied venezuela 2-2, and the loss to guadalupe doesn't factor in to the fifa world rankings because they are not a recognized nation within FIFA, so effectively, they were 2 wins and a draw.

[Thunderball]

not to nitpick, but they also tied venezuela 2-2, and the loss to guadalupe doesn't factor in to the fifa world rankings because they are not a recognized nation within FIFA, so effectively, they were 2 wins and a draw.

All the more reason the ratings are junk, no? Canada loses to a team that isn't even recognized, and who is essentially France's farm team, and yet they go up 38 places?

[ricoFlame]

All the more reason the ratings are junk, no? Canada loses to a team that isn't even recognized, and who is essentially France's farm team, and yet they go up 38 places?

hey, i agree, just adding to the point.

[Locke]

not to nitpick, but they also tied venezuela 2-2, and the loss to guadalupe doesn't factor in to the fifa world rankings because they are not a recognized nation within FIFA, so effectively, they were 2 wins and a draw.

I hear what you're saying, but the rankings are just weird. Brazil was #1 for damn near a decade. Almost ever since the ranking list even came out. I always believe that regardless of the ranking system, the team that wins the World Cup should be #1 until the next one. Thats just the way I see it.

And, if its a match played in a conference competition, then it shouldnt matter who was being played, points should still be taken into consideration. Not that Guadalupe would receive many points for beating Canada, but its a conference competition, how can it not count? Or, rather, how can an unrecognized country compete?

Thats like letting a random european hockey team play in one of the conference finals during the Stanley Cup playoffs. Weird.

[ricoFlame]

I hear what you're saying, but the rankings are just weird. Brazil was #1 for damn near a decade. Almost ever since the ranking list even came out. I always believe that regardless of the ranking system, the team that wins the World Cup should be #1 until the next one. Thats just the way I see it.

And, if its a match played in a conference competition, then it shouldnt matter who was being played, points should still be taken into consideration. Not that Guadalupe would receive many points for beating Canada, but its a conference competition, how can it not count? Or, rather, how can an unrecognized country compete?


definitely, they might have some credence if there was at least a formula or something else of that nature that went into determining just how the rankings are achieved. probably something that FIFA should consider, but they never will.

[ricoFlame]

gol tv shuld have it live i hope

yep, live @ 11:00.

[Maserati]

rankings dont mean much, football is too unpredictable..I've seen so many upsets and amazing matches where an underdog team whips a side with the big names.

[KTown]

Rankings in everything are stupid, but I can tell you this I sure as hell check them out every month.

It's a point system based on who you beat and how many goals your scored and got scored against.

Also certain matches are worth more. For example tournaments are worth more than Friendlies. World Cup has the most value followed by Euro Cup and world cup qualifying

[ricoFlame]

Rankings in everything are stupid, but I can tell you this I sure as hell check them out every month.

It's a point system based on who you beat and how many goals your scored and got scored against.

Also certain matches are worth more. For example tournaments are worth more than Friendlies. World Cup has the most value followed by Euro Cup and world cup qualifying

that'a actually a really good point, though i think that the rankings are dumb, i too check them out every time that they are released.

[mrdeeds]

I have always thought that Canada got no love when it came to the rankings, but I do not put much credence in it. Just win, baby!

[Thunderball]

Or, rather, how can an unrecognized country compete?



In the CONCACAF Gold Cup, I believe they invite two guest teams to play. Sometimes its fairly decent teams like Brazil's B squad, or sometimes its teams like Guadelope, which really only get to play friendlies and unsanctioned events since they are technically part of France.

[sadora]

I'll start off by saying that I'm glad that Canada is wining 3-nil over Guatemala. The second goal in particular was a great show of skill, but the game has been boring for the most part. Canada is definitely the stronger team here and could easily score at least two more goals in the second half because Guatemala hasn't even shown up to play. I wish that Canada would take even more advantage over Guatemala and stop playing in their own zone most of the time. That's my only complaint with the way they're playing right now. I counted at least 3 times they passed the ball to the keeper without being under pressure from Guatemala. It's been a so so performance from Canada in the first half, even though they're winning 3-nil. I hope for a more entertaining second half.

[Maserati]

Canada advanced to the Gold Cup semifinals for the first time since 2002 with a comprehensive 3-0 victory over Guatemala on Saturday afternoon at Gillette Stadium.

yanks playing panama right now pretty decent match..winner of thos match plays canada

[sadora]

Rankings in everything are stupid, but I can tell you this I sure as hell check them out every month.

It's a point system based on who you beat and how many goals your scored and got scored against.

Also certain matches are worth more. For example tournaments are worth more than Friendlies. World Cup has the most value followed by Euro Cup and world cup qualifying

I think that perhaps you would feel differently if Canada was in the top ten in that list. The list doesn't really mean much, you're right, but it does give you a pretty good idea as to who the best teams are at any given point. You will notice too that six out of the top ten on that list are teams that have won the world cup before, sharing 16 out of 18 titles between them.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I think that perhaps you would feel differently if Canada was in the top ten in that list. The list doesn't really mean much, you're right, but it does give you a pretty good idea as to who the best teams are at any given point. You will notice too that six out of the top ten on that list are teams that have won the world cup before, sharing 16 out of 18 titles between them.

I would think it'd be like the CHL Top 10, or CIS Top 10. The rankings can be weird, and difficult to judge fairly. There are a lot of problems with both. A few years ago I remember the CBU Capers won their division but were ranked lower than a team within their division nationally.

At the same time in the CHL after the Christmas trading period some teams can ice a drastically different team. Does this effect the rankings? Not in the short term. In 2002 Cape Breton had a mediocre first half, and tore it up in the second half, I don't think they made the Top 10 where a sliding Halifax who trailed off at the end of the season and were caught by Cape Breton were ranked.

There rankings are good as they give a general idea of how good teams are at the sport, however there is a method and formula to it which can be altered and biased. When I say biased I don't mean intentionally, just that it's debatable.

Any ranking system is the same way, I can tear apart the McLean's Magazine university ranking system. Yet people still use it as a gauge of how good an institution is.

If any thing it's a neat tidbit, but shouldn't be taken as fact.

[ricoFlame]

hey hey, big win, nice to see. the semifinal round match against the americans will be a great test, hopefully the fellas can rise to the occasion. nice.

[Locke]

hey hey, big win, nice to see. the semifinal round match against the americans will be a great test, hopefully the fellas can rise to the occasion. nice.

This is a definite wait-and-see. On paper, the US should slap us around pretty easily, however, they havent been playing at their best and Canada has thus far played 3 almost technically perfect games.

The only issue with that is that Canada has been wasting chances, especially against a pretty awful Guatemala. That game could have been embarrassing but Canada just couldnt finish.

Overall, as a coach of a kids team myself, as well as a player in men's league, I subscribe heavily to the "Any Given Day" that is, any team can win any game school of thought.

If they're ready for this, they can do it, they've played well enough so far, but they're going to have to elevate their game a little to continue.

Locke.

[sadora]

This is a definite wait-and-see. On paper, the US should slap us around pretty easily, however, they havent been playing at their best and Canada has thus far played 3 almost technically perfect games.

The only issue with that is that Canada has been wasting chances, especially against a pretty awful Guatemala. That game could have been embarrassing but Canada just couldnt finish.

Overall, as a coach of a kids team myself, as well as a player in men's league, I subscribe heavily to the "Any Given Day" that is, any team can win any game school of thought.

If they're ready for this, they can do it, they've played well enough so far, but they're going to have to elevate their game a little to continue.

Locke.

Canada will have to play much better against the Americans if they want to win. They beat Guatemala because they were the worse team on the pitch, not necessarily because of Canada's prowess. I thought that overall Canada played a bad game in the quarters so hopefully they can play themselves into form for the semifinals, otherwise the most Canada can hope for is a third place finish.

[mrdeeds]

Canada's D definitely needs to play better if they hope to advance past the US. Guatemala did pressure them after they substituted for Rodrigues, but then Canada got their 2nd goal and did not look back. Nash looks really shaky back there for sure.

[Scrambler]

Can't wait for this Thursdays game vs the USA! I'm crossing my fingers for a huge upset in Chicago. I've heard this game was going to be shown live, but on the sportsnet site it says it will be tape-delayed to be shown at 8pm PST. Anyone else know anything about this?

[GirlySports]

From soccertv.com

Thu Jun 21 04:00PM Pacific
Thu Jun 21 05:00PM Mountain
Thu Jun 21 06:00PM Central
Thu Jun 21 07:00PM Eastern
Thu Jun 21 08:00PM Atlantic
Thu Jun 21 08:30PM Newfoundland
Length: 2 hr 30 min LIVE
Rogers Sportsnet - ALL REGIONS - Canada (http://www.soccertv.com/network.cfm?network=SPORTSNET)
CONCACAF Gold Cup/Copa Oro - Semifinal 1
United States vs Canada

But it's Dodgers @ Jays on thursday at the same time.
The Jays have bumped soccer off the schedule for as long as I can remember. Wouldn't be suprised if it happened again here.

[MassFlames]

as weak as Guatemala was on Saturday, the Canadian offense was more than adept at penetrating their defense, and might see the same success if Bradley tries to roll the US's defensive unit from Saturday again.

They were an embarassment of miscommunications and blown assignments against the Panamanians, even when they were playing a man short. Frankie Hejduk, in particular, didn't seem to do anything well.

[Locke]

as weak as Guatemala was on Saturday, the Canadian offense was more than adept at penetrating their defense, and might see the same success if Bradley tries to roll the US's defensive unit from Saturday again.

They were an embarassment of miscommunications and blown assignments against the Panamanians, even when they were playing a man short. Frankie Hejduk, in particular, didn't seem to do anything well.

This is true too. Both teams are kind of stumbling into this one. I dont however, believe that its going to buy anyone any slack. This should be a pretty killer game. If either of these teams doesnt show up completely on thursday, they're going to get creamed.

[browna]

This is true too. Both teams are kind of stumbling into this one. I dont however, believe that its going to buy anyone any slack. This should be a pretty killer game. If either of these teams doesnt show up completely on thursday, they're going to get creamed.

If I am not mistaken, when Canada won the Gold Cup back when, they beat the heavily favoured Mexicans in the semifinals.

Not out of the question...I think they can even afford to go down by 1 goal, based on watching the US defend, and opportunitisc strikers on Canada... but obviosuly not going down by 2 than that if they want to have any chance.

[cSpooge]

If I am not mistaken, when Canada won the Gold Cup back when, they beat the heavily favoured Mexicans in the semifinals.

Not out of the question...I think they can even afford to go down by 1 goal, based on watching the US defend, and opportunitisc strikers on Canada... but obviosuly not going down by 2 than that if they want to have any chance.



IIRC they only made it there because of a coin toss.

[ricoFlame]

IIRC they only made it there because of a coin toss.

very true, and went on to upset both mexico and columbia, both of which were in the top 20 at the time, and T & T on their way to the title.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Anyone willing to put up $10 donation to calpuck against my $20 in a bet on this game? I'm for the USA of course...

[Maserati]

fingers crossed

[Locke]

Anyone willing to put up $10 donation to calpuck against my $20 in a bet on this game? I'm for the USA of course...

2-1 odds? Confident are we? Where do you hail from there Sowa?:)

Its going to be a good one, I'm telling all the kids I coach to watch it after our practice tonight and we'll talk about it at the next practice. I think this one is going to whomever comes out of the gates hardest though.

Go Canada GO!

[troutman]

CAN could win this one. Upsets are possible in soccer, perhaps more than all the other sports. I think there was a recent study about this.

[FlamingLonghorn]

2-1 odds? Confident are we? Where do you hail from there Sowa?:)

Its going to be a good one, I'm telling all the kids I coach to watch it after our practice tonight and we'll talk about it at the next practice. I think this one is going to whomever comes out of the gates hardest though.

Go Canada GO!

I am in Austin, Texas. I am pretty confident that the US will win and I figured no one would take my bet straight up so I raised the stakes a little. Still no takers?

[troutman]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/article.jsp?content=20070621_123119_5388

(*Programming note: Viewers with the Sportsnet digital package can view the Canada-USA semifinal game live on SN East or Pacific at 7 pm ET. All others can watch the game on tape delay. Check the TV sked for times in your region.)

When and how can we watch this game (live) in CGY?

[Locke]

I am in Austin, Texas. I am pretty confident that the US will win and I figured no one would take my bet straight up so I raised the stakes a little. Still no takers?

Alright you're on. I'll put up the $10 CP donation. Go Canada.

[Maserati]

match on

[Maserati]

2-0 in USA favour at the half

[Maserati]

Canada was robbed!!!!!!!!!! I'm so pissed here..that was a 100%legal goal no way it was offside..USA got away..this is so unfair...one of the worse calls I've ever seen..If USA wins the final they didnt deserve it at all

[Bill Bumface]

Bullsh*t. Absolute bullsh*t. There is no way a linesman that was selected to work the Gold Cup semifinal should be able to blow that call. Terrible. That was one bad call away from being the most exciting finish to a Canada soccer game I've ever seen.

[flames_fan13]

Horrible call to ruin what could have been a tied game and an exciting ending.

[GirlySports]

Bullsh*t. Absolute bullsh*t. There is no way a linesman that was selected to work the Gold Cup semifinal should be able to blow that call. Terrible. That was one bad call away from being the most exciting finish to a Canada soccer game I've ever seen.

I don't think I've ever seen the words exciting, soccer and Canada in one sentence before. So in that case our boys have earned alot because ever since I can remember, they couldn't put 2 passes together.

As for the offside.. call was made before the deflection when Gerba was 'even'. Unfortunate but it's a blown call that happens all the time in soccer :(

[Mango]

I'm still at a loss for words. Disgusting.

[Maserati]

if canada keeps playing this way I can see the making the World Cup good football

[ricoFlame]

i can't believe that finish. talk about getting a raw deal. BRUTAL...what a joke.

[Maserati]

I had jump up and down like a crazy fool and then i saw the ref had dis allowed it..sucks big time

[KTown]

Canada got screwed.

[troutman]

US was dominated for much of the match. Even the US commentators on GOL TV thought the 2-0 lead was well against the run of play.

Should have been a red card on the first half. Donovan is a disgrace with his diving. You know it's bad when the CAN players do the hand motion for diving after every whistle. Amazing how a trip or push from a Canadian player can cause an American to roll over for three complete revolutions.

And the linesman from Suriname really blew the off-side call at the end of the game. CAN outplayed the US and deserved better. US is 16th in FIFA rankings?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/grant_wahl/06/21/us.canada/index.html

If you're looking for referee conspiracies to ensure a U.S.-Mexico final, CONCACAF is providing its share of evidence . . . Canada's last-minute equalizer was only the latest pebble on a pile of awful Gold Cup calls against teams not named the U.S. or Mexico. . . At the very least, a Mexican referee shouldn't be working a game in which the winner likely will meet Mexico in the final

[ricoFlame]

If you're looking for referee conspiracies to ensure a U.S.-Mexico final, CONCACAF is providing its share of evidence . . . Canada's last-minute equalizer was only the latest pebble on a pile of awful Gold Cup calls against teams not named the U.S. or Mexico. . . At the very least, a Mexican referee shouldn't be working a game in which the winner likely will meet Mexico in the final





I find that very interesting. sonething needs to be done to address this issue because it truly takes away from the football in CONCACAF, which struggles enough as is.

[GirlySports]

If you're looking for referee conspiracies to ensure a U.S.-Mexico final, CONCACAF is providing its share of evidence . . . Canada's last-minute equalizer was only the latest pebble on a pile of awful Gold Cup calls against teams not named the U.S. or Mexico. . . At the very least, a Mexican referee shouldn't be working a game in which the winner likely will meet Mexico in the final





Wouldn't a biased Mexican ref want to play CANADA in the final?
I dont think there's a conspiracy, the refs in this region are just plain AWFUL. Everyone's been a victim. The US have had many many calls against them in places like Costa Rica and Honduras over the years.

[ricoFlame]

Wouldn't a biased Mexican ref want to play CANADA in the final?
I dont think there's a conspiracy, the refs in this region are just plain AWFUL. Everyone's been a victim. The US have had many many calls against them in places like Costa Rica and Honduras over the years.

they're all FIFA refs, they SHOULD be professional

[troutman]

Wouldn't a biased Mexican ref want to play CANADA in the final?


Not when Canada is playing better than the US.

But it wasn't the Mexican ref that blew the call at the end - the linesman was from Suriname.

Is it time for video reviews in soccer?

[mrdeeds]

Blown calls are in every sport. While in favour of video replay, I am more in favour of the replay booth calling down to advise the ref of a blatant missed call. As for the boys, good on ya. Their results are very encouraging. Let this be another step on the Road to 2010!

[Mango]

Is it time for video reviews in soccer?

Not to de-rail the thread, but absolutely. I think it has come to point where there is more acting than true penalties. Understandably, it would be impossible to review every penalty, but when a questionable play is crucial to the outcome of the game, a review is necessary.

Kudos to the Canadians for not losing their temper more than they did. They have gained a fair amount of momentum and I hope that comes through during the WC qualifiers.

[Scrambler]

I"m almost glad I had to work tonight and didn't get to watch the game (live or taped). What a bloody terrible ending to a good rally by the Canadians.

One thing for sure, soccer is getting better in this country. The Whitecaps of the USL in Vancouver/Burnaby sell-out their games (champs last year) and Toronto FC has been a huge success thus far. Add that to the fact that the U20 World Cup is coming in weeks and if Canada gets a decent result in that this sport will become even more important to this country.

I can't wait for the U20's!

[GirlySports]

Not to de-rail the thread, but absolutely. I think it has come to point where there is more acting than true penalties. Understandably, it would be impossible to review every penalty, but when a questionable play is crucial to the outcome of the game, a review is necessary.

Kudos to the Canadians for not losing their temper more than they did. They have gained a fair amount of momentum and I hope that comes through during the WC qualifiers.

You can't review judgement calls (fouls) in any sport.
The only thing you could review in soccer is if the ball crossed the goal line or not and there's really no point in that.

[MassFlames]

i didn't see the game, or even highlights, but from everything i've read, the US was everything i feared they would be. luckily the Yanks won, but jesus, i've seen both teams play and the US should've won by at least a pair

[Scrambler]

Ok, just realized the game is on SNet again right now. Turned it on right when Hume scored for Canada and have enjoyed watching the final exciting 20 mins. Controversial no-goal coming right up...

[Scrambler]

omg, that was painful to watch knowing what was going to happen! I'm sure the CSA will complain... to what avail I'm not sure.

[ricoFlame]

You can't review judgement calls (fouls) in any sport.
The only thing you could review in soccer is if the ball crossed the goal line or not and there's really no point in that.

i disagree with that, offside is most often very clear on video, it's equally a "judgement call" as looing for a first down in football or anything else for that matter, they're essentially all judgement calls, even when looking at a ball crossing the line.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Should have been a red card on the first half. Donovan is a disgrace with his diving. You know it's bad when the CAN players do the hand motion for diving after every whistle. Amazing how a trip or push from a Canadian player can cause an American to roll over for three complete revolutions.







In all fairness, you could make a case that Onstad could have received a red card for his foul that lead to the penalty. He was the last man back and he brought the guy down. The rule book states that is a red card. I was shocked that he didn't get one. Donovan dived and got punished for it, no way that is red card worthy.

Canada did get screwed, I'm as upset as the next person, I was swearing like crazy, but I aint buying this conspiracy talk. Concacaf refs have been bad for years, its sad, but true.

[rubecube]

Is it time for video reviews in soccer?

Just make sure you use the NFL and not the NHL as an example of why it's needed.

[Mango]

You can't review judgement calls (fouls) in any sport.
The only thing you could review in soccer is if the ball crossed the goal line or not and there's really no point in that.

Well, this is a example of a situation that should've been reviewed. In the NFL, a player stepping out of bounds can be reviewed, so why not this off-side call? The call directly impacted the outcome of the game.

[troutman]

You can't review judgement calls (fouls) in any sport.
The only thing you could review in soccer is if the ball crossed the goal line or not and there's really no point in that.

You could review off-sides and penalties very easily.

[llama64]

Well, this is a example of a situation that should've been reviewed. In the NFL, a player stepping out of bounds can be reviewed, so why not this off-side call? The call directly impacted the outcome of the game.

This is soccer mentality. The Referee (and his staff) is as much a part of the game as are the individual players. Every call is judged based entirely on subjective terms which leads to a common acceptance that "simulation" is a valid skill.

To put a ref's calls under video review would be a slight against the officials authority, and in a sport ruled by machismo, that just won't happen.

I wonder if any of the US players feel cheated as well. Their victory appears hollow to anyone who saw that game. I know I would be pissed off for not being allowed to compete fairly. Winning isn't everything.

[Mango]

To put a ref's calls under video review would be a slight against the officials authority, and in a sport ruled by machismo, that just won't happen.

Good post.

I'll admit, I'm a more recent soccer fan (probably since the late 1990s). Has there always been credibility issues when it comes to reffing and non-calls? The Maradona incident always comes to mind, but I don't know if that one would fall under this category.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

You could review off-sides and penalties very easily.

If you're suggesting they review fouls, there would be a reviews every other minute. I do believe you could review offsides though, but having said that, anytime a call is close, the coach would ask to have that reviewed and I got no issue with a ref mistake once in awhile, so I dont like the idea. Last night's non call sucks because it was so blatant and it was in the last second. I just don't like the logistics of review in soccer.

[llama64]

If you're suggesting they review fouls, there would be a reviews every other minute. I do believe you could review offsides though, but having said that, anytime a call is close, the coach would ask to have that reviewed and I got no issue with a ref mistake once in awhile, so I dont like the idea. Last night's non call sucks because it was so blatant and it was in the last second. I just don't like the logistics of review in soccer.

In many sports, each coach is given a number of time outs. Once used, their gone for that game.

What if the same idea was applied to reviews? Say each coach was given 1 review per half?

[Mango]

What if the same idea was applied to reviews? Say each coach was given 1 review per half?

Perhaps similiar to what is being done in tennis?

[VANFLAMESFAN]

In many sports, each coach is given a number of time outs. Once used, their gone for that game.

What if the same idea was applied to reviews? Say each coach was given 1 review per half?

And ruin the bad flow that soccer already has?? I don't wanna have 5 minute breaks during a half. What if both coaches uses each of their challenges in the half, you're gonna have 7-10 minutes of the players doing nothing, this will ruin the game.

[llama64]

Perhaps similiar to what is being done in tennis?

I'm not familiar with tennis. What is going on in that world?

The biggest hurdle facing soccer remains the attitude of expected behavior. Trying to win by bending the rule and complaining to the official over every small niggly thing (possession on a throw in? come on) needs to be cracked down. Plus, some concrete rules and an automatic card for "simulation" would be nice.

[Mango]

I'm not familiar with tennis. What is going on in that world?

Within each set, a player is allowed to challenge two calls. If the player is wrong on their first challenge, they forefit their second challenge. A sport like tennis relies on boundaries and often just a millimeter makes the difference. I like that the player has the opportunity to challenge a call, but they have to use their challenge wisely.

[Robbob]

Saw the highlights lasht and a couple things I noticed is that Canada was robbed on the goal and that one tackle on the Canadian was one of the hardest I've seen in soccer. I think the Canadian way of sports is probably one of the reason that wasn't a red. If the Canadian rolled around more a red card might have been given out. That is one of the reasons I get annoyed when I watch soccer. Players tend to drop too easy. Players don't flight through things any more. I don't find it as bad in the english leagues as the Euro leagues though.

[troutman]

If you're suggesting they review fouls, there would be a reviews every other minute. I do believe you could review offsides though, but having said that, anytime a call is close, the coach would ask to have that reviewed and I got no issue with a ref mistake once in awhile, so I dont like the idea. Last night's non call sucks because it was so blatant and it was in the last second. I just don't like the logistics of review in soccer.

Right - I'm only talking about video reviews on fouls that result in penalty kicks. And offsides that led to goals.

The logistics of review are better than the logistics of tainted games.

[GirlySports]

i disagree with that, offside is most often very clear on video, it's equally a "judgement call" as looing for a first down in football or anything else for that matter, they're essentially all judgement calls, even when looking at a ball crossing the line.

The goal line is fixed. It's a white line painted on the ground.
So is the first down line.

The offside line is person, a moving object. You'd have to have perfect camera angles and frozen at the excat time etc etc... And what is offside? Is it even with the defender.. is it half a body? is it a toe? Are you going to look at the replay 100 times to see if the guys dreadlocks were JUST in front?

It's a judgement call.

Conclusion: You can only review lines are are fixed. Even in hockey the high-stick over the crossbar or the "distinct kicking motion" reviews are very very iffy.

[sadora]

And what is offside? Is it even with the defender.. is it half a body? is it a toe? Are you going to look at the replay 100 times to see if the guys dreadlocks were JUST in front?

It's a judgement call.


Yes, offside calls are judgement calls, but here is how FIFA defines the offside...

Decision 1
In the definition of offside position, “nearer to his opponents’ goal
line” means that any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his
opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent.

So, if an attacking player who is in line with a defender makes a forward motion before the ball is played to him/her, then they are in an offside position.

For more in FIFA's Laws of the game check out this link: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/lotg2006_e_1581.pdf

[GirlySports]

Yes, offside calls are judgement calls, but here is how FIFA defines the offside...

Decision 1
In the definition of offside position, “nearer to his opponents’ goal
line” means that any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his
opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent.

So, if an attacking player who is in line with a defender makes a forward motion before the ball is played to him/her, then they are in an offside position.

For more in FIFA's Laws of the game check out this link: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/federation/lotg2006_e_1581.pdf

What about deflected balls.. what about 'passive' offside.
Maybe the rule is just too complex which makes it so controversial.
Maybe soccer needs a 35 yard blue-line!

I wouldn't like to be a linesman looking down the line. I'd be scared to blink!

[ricoFlame]

So is the first down line.


no, it isn't. there are hash marks , but over most of the field, there are no lines.

[sadora]

What about deflected balls.. what about 'passive' offside.
Maybe the rule is just too complex which makes it so controversial.
Maybe soccer needs a 35 yard blue-line!

I wouldn't like to be a linesman looking down the line. I'd be scared to blink!

There is no offside offence if a player receives the ball directly from:
• a goal kick or
• a throw-in or
• a corner kick

So a deflected ball doesn't really count towards negating the offside because it's not intentional and still gives the attacking player an advantage. If the defender was to pass the ball back to his keeper there would not be an offside because that's not an accident.

[Locke]

Little known fact: This is the third time this exact same ref has screwed Canada at the gold cup.

This time, every sports reporting service (TSN, ESPN, SN, SW) regardless of being Canadian, American or British was absolutely disgusted at this call, and had the balls to say it during their reports.

I haven't seen such an obviously bad call in International Soccer since the Hand of God, but I think its reasonably safe to say, that this Ref will spend the rest of his career reffing MLS, because his international days are done. He is tainted goods now.

Canada should be proud of coming back in the Second half as well as they did, seeing as how they were somewhat outplayed for the majority of the game. But outplayed doesnt mean anything if they arent outscored, and in this match they werent and shouldnt have been. I hope Mexico wins the whole thing, and the States should too. No one should win a tournament when they got to the Final riding a referee.

Locke.

PS. Congrats Sowa, I guess I owe that $10.

[GirlySports]

no, it isn't. there are hash marks , but over most of the field, there are no lines.

You can measure it with a chain :)

[troutman]

Little known fact: This is the third time this exact same ref has screwed Canada at the gold cup.

This time, every sports reporting service (TSN, ESPN, SN, SW) regardless of being Canadian, American or British was absolutely disgusted at this call, and had the balls to say it during their reports.

I haven't seen such an obviously bad call in International Soccer since the Hand of God, but I think its reasonably safe to say, that this Ref will spend the rest of his career reffing MLS, because his international days are done. He is tainted goods now.

Canada should be proud of coming back in the Second half as well as they did, seeing as how they were somewhat outplayed for the majority of the game. But outplayed doesnt mean anything if they arent outscored, and in this match they werent and shouldnt have been. I hope Mexico wins the whole thing, and the States should too. No one should win a tournament when they got to the Final riding a referee.

Locke.

PS. Congrats Sowa, I guess I owe that $10.

It wasn't the ref - it was the linesman that blew the call, right?

[cSpooge]

It wasn't the ref - it was the linesman that blew the call, right?



It was both. Its the linesman for calling it offside and the ref for not over rulling him by seeing that it was a back pass.

[troutman]

It was both. Its the linesman for calling it offside and the ref for not over rulling him by seeing that it was a back pass.

Wasn't he on-side, whether or not there was a back pass?

[cSpooge]

Wasn't he on-side, whether or not there was a back pass?



It was close and the assistant ref raised the flag right away. So in his mind he was offside. The ref still has the final say though.

[Locke]

Wasn't he on-side, whether or not there was a back pass?

It was close and the assistant ref raised the flag right away. So in his mind he was offside. The ref still has the final say though.

Both true. Regardless of the Linesman's call, the Ref should have seen the obvious back-pass which automatically eliminates the possibility for offside.

[Machiavelli]

Grrr, the U.S. won. Tainted victory . . .

http://tsn.ca/news_story.asp?ID=211795&hubName=main

[sadora]

Grrr, the U.S. won. Tainted victory . . .

http://tsn.ca/news_story.asp?ID=211795&hubName=main

As much as I wanted Mexico to win I have to admit that the gringo's second goal was a thing of beauty. It was a perfect first time volley. Oh well, now for a real tournament to watch, the Copa America starts next week.

[Maserati]

the yanks didn't deserve the win

[Locke]

As much as I wanted Mexico to win I have to admit that the gringo's second goal was a thing of beauty. It was a perfect first time volley. Oh well, now for a real tournament to watch, the Copa America starts next week.

Yeah, but how are we going to watch it? I dont think we get any Copa America games on TV here.

Not to mention, Brazil and Argentina totally mail this tournament in and are still way better to watch than any other conference tourny.

[ricoFlame]

You can measure it with a chain :)

they can use a chain on the replay? technology has come a long way!:D

[Maserati]

copa america should be shown on gol tv

[ricoFlame]

copa america should be shown on gol tv

yeah, it is, here is the sched for gol tv: http://www.goltv.ca/schedule/schedule.pdf

[sadora]

Yeah, but how are we going to watch it? I dont think we get any Copa America games on TV here.

Not to mention, Brazil and Argentina totally mail this tournament in and are still way better to watch than any other conference tourny.

You can watch the games on Telelatino out of Toronto. I know that both Shaw and Telus carry the chanel. You can also check out this website: www.rojadirecta.com (http://www.rojadirecta.com) where you can watch the games through GolTV. The programming is in Spanish but it's pretty straight forward to understand as they have the name of the countries playing the games. You might just have to download some of the players to view the games...like TVants or TVU Player.
Brazil is the obvious favorite at the moment but Argentina has a pretty good squad right now that may be able to take this one. Colombia and the host Venezuela have decent teams as well. Paraguay is always decent and it will be interesting to see what invitees Mexico and the USA can do.

[GirlySports]

Yeah, but how are we going to watch it? I dont think we get any Copa America games on TV here.

Not to mention, Brazil and Argentina totally mail this tournament in and are still way better to watch than any other conference tourny.

Brazil's lineup is weak without Kaka or Ronaldinho but Argentina's is STACKED!

Arqueros: Roberto Abbondanzieri (Getafe, España), Juan Pablo Carrizo (River Plate) y Agustín Orión (San Lorenzo).
Defensores: Roberto Ayala (Valencia, España), Javier Zanetti (Inter, Italia), Nicolás Burdisso (Inter, Italia), Hugo Ibarra (Boca Juniors), Daniel Díaz (Boca Juniors), Gabriel Milito (Zaragoza, España), Gabriel Heinze (Manchester United, Inglaterra).
Volantes: Luis González (FC Oporto, Portugal), Javier Mascherano (Liverpool, Inglaterra), Esteban Cambiasso (Inter, Italia), Fernando Gago (Real Madrid, España), Pablo Aimar (Zaragoza, España), Juan Sebastián Verón (Estudiantes de La Plata) y Juan Román Riquelme (Boca Juniors).
Delanteros: Lionel Messi (FC Barcelona, España), Hernán Crespo (Inter, Italia), Diego Milito (Zaragoza, España), Carlos Tevez (West Ham, Inglaterra) y Rodrigo Palacio (Boca Juniors).


So it's Argentina-USA on Thursday night.. any predictions?
I say 4-0 minimum.

[ricoFlame]

Brazil's lineup is weak without Kaka or Ronaldinho but Argentina's is STACKED!

Arqueros: Roberto Abbondanzieri (Getafe, España), Juan Pablo Carrizo (River Plate) y Agustín Orión (San Lorenzo).
Defensores: Roberto Ayala (Valencia, España), Javier Zanetti (Inter, Italia), Nicolás Burdisso (Inter, Italia), Hugo Ibarra (Boca Juniors), Daniel Díaz (Boca Juniors), Gabriel Milito (Zaragoza, España), Gabriel Heinze (Manchester United, Inglaterra).
Volantes: Luis González (FC Oporto, Portugal), Javier Mascherano (Liverpool, Inglaterra), Esteban Cambiasso (Inter, Italia), Fernando Gago (Real Madrid, España), Pablo Aimar (Zaragoza, España), Juan Sebastián Verón (Estudiantes de La Plata) y Juan Román Riquelme (Boca Juniors).
Delanteros: Lionel Messi (FC Barcelona, España), Hernán Crespo (Inter, Italia), Diego Milito (Zaragoza, España), Carlos Tevez (West Ham, Inglaterra) y Rodrigo Palacio (Boca Juniors).


So it's Argentina-USA on Thursday night.. any predictions?
I say 4-0 minimum.


Definitely stacked, can't wait to watch Messi, superb footballer.

[Thunderball]

Brazil's lineup is weak without Kaka or Ronaldinho but Argentina's is STACKED!

Arqueros: Roberto Abbondanzieri (Getafe, España), Juan Pablo Carrizo (River Plate) y Agustín Orión (San Lorenzo).
Defensores: Roberto Ayala (Valencia, España), Javier Zanetti (Inter, Italia), Nicolás Burdisso (Inter, Italia), Hugo Ibarra (Boca Juniors), Daniel Díaz (Boca Juniors), Gabriel Milito (Zaragoza, España), Gabriel Heinze (Manchester United, Inglaterra).
Volantes: Luis González (FC Oporto, Portugal), Javier Mascherano (Liverpool, Inglaterra), Esteban Cambiasso (Inter, Italia), Fernando Gago (Real Madrid, España), Pablo Aimar (Zaragoza, España), Juan Sebastián Verón (Estudiantes de La Plata) y Juan Román Riquelme (Boca Juniors).
Delanteros: Lionel Messi (FC Barcelona, España), Hernán Crespo (Inter, Italia), Diego Milito (Zaragoza, España), Carlos Tevez (West Ham, Inglaterra) y Rodrigo Palacio (Boca Juniors).


So it's Argentina-USA on Thursday night.. any predictions?
I say 4-0 minimum.


Jesus! Talk about talent! Argentina is easily the favorite to win... I'm surprised they threw out all the stops for Copa... typically the big teams send their B squad and/or some young guys (and still win).

[mrdeeds]

I used to want the US to win in soccer, but not now. There were a washout in the WC and were fortunate to win the Gold Cup. I have little doubt they will get slaughtered. :whistle:

[Thunderball]

I used to want the US to win in soccer, but not now. There were a washout in the WC and were fortunate to win the Gold Cup. I have little doubt they will get slaughtered. :whistle:

I wouldn't exactly call the US a washout in the World Cup... that was not exactly an easy group they were in... they had the eventual winners, Italy, Ghana (who were shockingly resilient) and the Czechs (who were just as unlucky against Italy and Ghana).

The Gold Cup "offside" was unfortunate, but it happens a lot. Human error is an understood part of the game, and teams have to be thoughtful of it. The play looked offside at first glance. I thought it was a fair call until they started showing replays... however, that sort of thing happens every week in club competitions.

They will get totalled in Copa though. The US doesn't fare well against the Latin teams away from home... especially with that freaking dream team Argentina is sending.

[ricoFlame]

I wouldn't exactly call the US a washout in the World Cup... that was not exactly an easy group they were in... they had the eventual winners, Italy, Ghana (who were shockingly resilient) and the Czechs (who were just as unlucky against Italy and Ghana).

The Gold Cup "offside" was unfortunate, but it happens a lot. Human error is an understood part of the game, and teams have to be thoughtful of it. The play looked offside at first glance. I thought it was a fair call until they started showing replays... however, that sort of thing happens every week in club competitions.

They will get totalled in Copa though. The US doesn't fare well against the Latin teams away from home... especially with that freaking dream team Argentina is sending.

Ghana = one of the best groups of young talent in the world right now. That was a burtal group, plenty of great players.

[Thunderball]

Ghana = one of the best groups of young talent in the world right now. That was a burtal group, plenty of great players.

They are, but I don't think a lot of us realized that until we saw them take down the Czechs and Americans, as well as hold their own against the Italians on a global stage.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Brazil's lineup is weak without Kaka or Ronaldinho but Argentina's is STACKED!

Arqueros: Roberto Abbondanzieri (Getafe, España), Juan Pablo Carrizo (River Plate) y Agustín Orión (San Lorenzo).
Defensores: Roberto Ayala (Valencia, España), Javier Zanetti (Inter, Italia), Nicolás Burdisso (Inter, Italia), Hugo Ibarra (Boca Juniors), Daniel Díaz (Boca Juniors), Gabriel Milito (Zaragoza, España), Gabriel Heinze (Manchester United, Inglaterra).
Volantes: Luis González (FC Oporto, Portugal), Javier Mascherano (Liverpool, Inglaterra), Esteban Cambiasso (Inter, Italia), Fernando Gago (Real Madrid, España), Pablo Aimar (Zaragoza, España), Juan Sebastián Verón (Estudiantes de La Plata) y Juan Román Riquelme (Boca Juniors).
Delanteros: Lionel Messi (FC Barcelona, España), Hernán Crespo (Inter, Italia), Diego Milito (Zaragoza, España), Carlos Tevez (West Ham, Inglaterra) y Rodrigo Palacio (Boca Juniors).


So it's Argentina-USA on Thursday night.. any predictions?
I say 4-0 minimum.


If you give me 4 goals I will gladly take that bet...

[GirlySports]

If you give me 4 goals I will gladly take that bet...

Heh I would but I'm poor fan that doesnt gamble.
US is sending a very young team it will be good experience for them.


GOALKEEPERS - Brad Guzan (Chivas USA), Kasey Keller (Borussia Moenchengladbach).
DEFENDERS - Jonathan Bornstein (Chivas USA), Bobby Boswell (D.C. United), Dan Califf (Aalborg BK), Jimmy Conrad (Kansas City Wizards), Jay DeMerit (Watford FC), Drew Moor (FC Dallas), Heath Pearce (FC Nordsjaelland), Marvell Wynne (Toronto FC).
MIDFIELDERS - Kyle Beckerman (Colorado Rapids), Ricardo Clark (Houston Dynamo), Benny Feilhaber (Hamburger SV), Eddie Gaven (Columbus Crew), Sacha Kljestan (Chivas USA), Justin Mapp (Chicago Fire), Lee Nguyen (PSV Eindhoven), Ben Olsen (D.C.United). FORWARDS - Charlie Davies (Hammarby IF), Herculez Gomez (Colorado Rapids), Eddie Johnson (Kansas City Wizards), Taylor Twellman (New England Revolution).

[GirlySports]

Jesus! Talk about talent! Argentina is easily the favorite to win... I'm surprised they threw out all the stops for Copa... typically the big teams send their B squad and/or some young guys (and still win).

Argentina is just pissed off. They keep getting embarrased in World Cups and they haven't won the Copa since 1993. Brazil has won 3 since then including a final over Argentina in the finals on penalties in 2004.
They are determined to show the world their talent this time so they're sending a full squad.

[Thunderball]

Argentina is just pissed off. They keep getting embarrased in World Cups and they haven't won the Copa since 1993. Brazil has won 3 since then including a final over Argentina in the finals on penalties in 2004.
They are determined to show the world their talent this time so they're sending a full squad.

Argentina's problem in the World Cup is that their talent just doesn't mesh with the hard-nosed European styles of England, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands or the Czechs. Though they are starting to breed destroyers too (Mascherano for one) so maybe that'll change. Spain and Portugal play a more Latin style and they run into issues too. Brazil seems to be able to overcome it though.

But I agree... they are definitely there to win, and to try and do so convincingly.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Heh I would but I'm poor fan that doesnt gamble.
US is sending a very young team it will be good experience for them.


GOALKEEPERS - Brad Guzan (Chivas USA), Kasey Keller (Borussia Moenchengladbach).
DEFENDERS - Jonathan Bornstein (Chivas USA), Bobby Boswell (D.C. United), Dan Califf (Aalborg BK), Jimmy Conrad (Kansas City Wizards), Jay DeMerit (Watford FC), Drew Moor (FC Dallas), Heath Pearce (FC Nordsjaelland), Marvell Wynne (Toronto FC).
MIDFIELDERS - Kyle Beckerman (Colorado Rapids), Ricardo Clark (Houston Dynamo), Benny Feilhaber (Hamburger SV), Eddie Gaven (Columbus Crew), Sacha Kljestan (Chivas USA), Justin Mapp (Chicago Fire), Lee Nguyen (PSV Eindhoven), Ben Olsen (D.C.United). FORWARDS - Charlie Davies (Hammarby IF), Herculez Gomez (Colorado Rapids), Eddie Johnson (Kansas City Wizards), Taylor Twellman (New England Revolution).
I like that there sending some of these guys...
highlights for me
1) Lee Nguyen - heard friends talk about him never seen him play supposed to be one of our future studs...
2) Feilhaber - see if he can continue his Gold Cup success
3) Wynne - blazing fast
4) DeMerit - plays in the EPL bout time he gets some int'l caps

[Locke]

Argentina is just pissed off. They keep getting embarrased in World Cups and they haven't won the Copa since 1993. Brazil has won 3 since then including a final over Argentina in the finals on penalties in 2004.
They are determined to show the world their talent this time so they're sending a full squad.

Pretty much. Brazil always amazes me, they are the defending Champions and looking at their squad for this tournament they are mailing it in again. No doubt they will still destroy some teams they go up against. Maybe not in their grand style, but it will be great to watch.

Some of the more unknown players on Brazil's squad understand that they are auditioning for World Cup roster spots that are really hard to win over some of the more established guys (See Roberto Carlos, Robinho, Ronaldinho,etc.). That is some serious motivation. Just because there are few/no marquee players doesnt meant there isnt any talent coming along for the ride.

Argentina is fielding an unbelievably good team. I dont know how they got club clearances for even half of those players, but they are far and away the favorites. Unfortunately they are also notorious choke artists whenever the title 'favorite' is established.

This is going to be fun to watch.

As for Argentina - USA, in game 1, I would take a more conservative estimate of 2-0, or maybe 3-1. Argentina isn't going to blow them out of the park in the first game.

The USA should know that these guys will tear them to ribbons offensively if sufficiently motivated. Knowing this they should adopt a much more defensive strategy to start with. I they do, they have a good chance. If they think they're going to play the Run and Gun game with Argentina they're going to get slaughtered.

Locke.