Hardaway hates gays...

[ricoFlame]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2766213

Very politically correct, and very smart by hardaway on this one:blink: ...pretty dumb.

[GirlySports]

We know where we stand. Many NBA players in the last week or so have stated that they dont want a gay teammate. LeBron even said that if a gay guy didnt come out, it would be a backstab.

We want our athletes and media to be honest and not give the '110% percent' every time. But this was really really harsh. "I hate gay people" goes outside of the realm of sports.

What about the NHL?

-----

Those holding their breath for a past or present-day NHLer to proclaim a preference in male partners are advised to exhale post-haste. I'm no gambler, but I'd bet a Saskatchewan's worth of farms that any and all elite-level gay hockey players will be stuck in their closets for decades to come.
"A player or ex-player announcing he's gay? No chance whatsoever," said one NHL GM I spoke with Thursday. "You'd have better odds of a guy coming out as a member of Al-Qaeda."

-The Hockey News

[bluejays]

We know where we stand. Many NBA players in the last week or so have stated that they dont want a gay teammate. LeBron even said that if a gay guy didnt come out, it would be a backstab.

We want our athletes and media to be honest and not give the '110% percent' every time. But this was really really harsh. "I hate gay people" goes outside of the realm of sports.

What about the NHL?

-----

Those holding their breath for a past or present-day NHLer to proclaim a preference in male partners are advised to exhale post-haste. I'm no gambler, but I'd bet a Saskatchewan's worth of farms that any and all elite-level gay hockey players will be stuck in their closets for decades to come.
"A player or ex-player announcing he's gay? No chance whatsoever," said one NHL GM I spoke with Thursday. "You'd have better odds of a guy coming out as a member of Al-Qaeda."

-The Hockey News

That Hockey News quote is pretty funny IMO. As for Hardaway, I agree with you, I think everyone likes refreshing statements, but that was taken a bit too far. Most gay people are pretty harmless and wouldn't try pulling something in the locker room, so I don't know why a guy like Hardaway would say something like that. Whatever happened to Hardaway?

[habernac]

I love the detraction at the end of the article. Yeah, uh..... I didn't mean to say that.

Gimme a break, Hardaway.

[JiriHrdina]

That Hockey News quote is pretty funny IMO. As for Hardaway, I agree with you, I think everyone likes refreshing statements, but that was taken a bit too far. Most gay people are pretty harmless and wouldn't try pulling something in the locker room, so I don't know why a guy like Hardaway would say something like that. Whatever happened to Hardaway?

A bit too far?

"I am homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."

That's more than a bit too far I think.

And when you say "Most gay people are pretty harmless" you sound like you are talking about some sort of dangerous animal like a pit bull instead of a human being.

[worth]

In bad taste yes, but he should be able to say and think what he wants.

[JiriHrdina]

In bad taste yes, but he should be able to say and think what he wants.

No question, and the rest of us can tell him what a bigot he is for thinking the way he does.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

In bad taste yes, but he should be able to say and think what he wants.

If he thinks that, fine, but he should know better than to say it on a live radio show.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

If you want to listen to the comments, click the link below, hit the Tim Hardaway link about a quarter way down the page and go to the end of the interview.

http://www.790theticket.com/shows.php?show=The+Dan+Le+Batard+Show+with+Stugotz

[worth]

No question, and the rest of us can tell him what a bigot he is for thinking the way he does.

Absolutley.

[GirlySports]

I love the detraction at the end of the article. Yeah, uh..... I didn't mean to say that.

Gimme a break, Hardaway.


At least he hasn't used the "My statement was taken out of context" plea that you hear athletes use all the time. Although that would be tough since the statement came out of his own mouth!

He just apologized and said that he shouldn't have said anything at all. But obviously he still feels that way.

Amaechi spoke on Hardaway's comments to the Miami Herald: "Finally, someone who is honest. It is ridiculous, absurd, petty, bigoted and shows a lack of empathy that is gargantuan and unfathomable. But it is honest. And it illustrates the problem better than any of the fuzzy language other people have used so far."

[ben voyonsdonc]

"I shouldn't have said I hate gay people or anything like that," he said. "That was my mistake." The mistake isn't saying that he hates gays, the mistake is hating gays.

I kind of appreciate his honesty. Of course what he is saying is dead wrong but at least it could start up a dialogue. Maybe Hardaway will become an "Archie Bunker" type bigot who will have people talking about their prejudices which could lead to issues and myths being debunked.

Shutting up and hiding prejudices does not mean that they don't exist. We can't be afraid of the ugliness of prejudice and need to confront it head-on.

[Saint Troy]

Hardaway basically ruined himself with that outburst, Stern has already closed ranks and Hardaway will never be at an NBA approved function again. I'm still amazed he sat there and said that, and then made sure to reiterate his point, truly no brain to mouth filter in effect.

[bluejays]

Hardaway basically ruined himself with that outburst, Stern has already closed ranks and Hardaway will never be at an NBA approved function again. I'm still amazed he sat there and said that, and then made sure to reiterate his point, truly no brain to mouth filter in effect.

IMO, he said it for effect. IIRC, back in his playing days, he was seen as a major playa wasn't he? (I can't believe I just said that). But yeah, he likely did that to reiterate his reputation of being a ladies man.

[ricoFlame]

ESPN is really making a story of this, at one point there was around 12 seperate links to story's and/or reaction to this incodent. They are really working to sell this stupid book. There's still a bunch of stuff on their main page.

[corporatejay]

Most gay people are pretty harmless and wouldn't try pulling something in the locker room

I don't want to pick on you but I would say "ALL gay people are pretty harmless and wouldn't try anything in the locker room".

If you there was a female hockey player I'm pretty sure she wouldn't be hitting on the men non-stop, and there has to be a certain level of professionalism on a professional sports team, how is it any different than having women from the media in the room?

Would most people be uncomfortable with it at first?? Absolutely, but after it becomes common place no one would think twice about it, and that's why more high profile atheletes need to come out.

[burn_baby_burn]

Hardaway's comments may be honest. But it wasn't that long ago that professional athletes may have had similar comments referring to players of African origin. Things have changed drastically since Jackie Robisnon took the field with the Brooklyn Dodgers. It is just a matter of time before openly gay athletes are playing professional sports.

I find it sad how minority players, such as Chris Carter. Can complain about racism in the NFL. Then openly criticize a former team mate for not coming out of the closet. Discrimination isn't soley based on race alone.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Homophobia crosses racial barriers...it is sad but true. I think the only way to defeat homophobia is to show that is is a serious issue and confront it head on. We have made a lot of progress in the last 5-10 years but more needs to be done.

It would be tough for a male professional athlete to come out right now because of the closet because of the rampant homophobia. However, I have read that NHLers are substantially more open minded to having a gay teammate -- so my money is on an NHL player to be the first to come out.

[bluejays]

Homophobia crosses racial barriers...it is sad but true. I think the only way to defeat homophobia is to show that is is a serious issue and confront it head on. We have made a lot of progress in the last 5-10 years but more needs to be done.

It would be tough for a male professional athlete to come out right now because of the closet because of the rampant homophobia. However, I have read that NHLers are substantially more open minded to having a gay teammate -- so my money is on an NHL player to be the first to come out.


nm

[HelloHockeyFans]

In bad taste yes, but he should be able to say and think what he wants.

Yup. He certainly can say and think whatever he wants... he just better be ready for the **** storm that'll come with saying garbage like that.

[mrdeeds]

Yup. He certainly can say and think whatever he wants... he just better be ready for the **** storm that'll come with saying garbage like that.

Yeah. He deserves every bit of scrutiny he gets...:confused:

[GreenTeaFrapp]

I don't want to pick on you but I would say "ALL gay people are pretty harmless and wouldn't try anything in the locker room".

You can never make a blanket statement like that that covers everyone. Look at Graham James for example.

If you there was a female hockey player I'm pretty sure she wouldn't be hitting on the men non-stop,

But what about a male hockey player on a women's team? Is it possible that he could hit on them on a regular basis?

and there has to be a certain level of professionalism on a professional sports team, how is it any different than having women from the media in the room?

Are male reporters allowed inside the locker rooms of female athletes?

[ben voyonsdonc]

You can never make a blanket statement like that that covers everyone. Look at Graham James for example. James is a pedophile...there is a difference between being gay and being a pedophile. Most pedophiles would say that they are straight -- it is the age of the child that is more attractive than the gender of the child.


But what about a male hockey player on a women's team? Is it possible that he could hit on them on a regular basis?

With regards to your second question, what should we do? Create a men's locker room, women's locker room and gay locker room??? Or should we ban all gays from playing sports or should they be forced to dress with women?

[Thunderball]

James is a pedophile...there is a difference between being gay and being a pedophile. Most pedophiles would say that they are straight -- it is the age of the child that is more attractive than the gender of the child.



With regards to your second question, what should we do? Create a men's locker room, women's locker room and gay locker room??? Or should we ban all gays from playing sports or should they be forced to dress with women?

You bring up an excellent point. Women and men are separated in change rooms for myriad of reasons... one prevalent reason is that women feel uncomfortable being viewed in a state of undress by lustful eyes. Since we acknowledge homosexuality, should we not acknowledge that some men might be looking at other men with lustful eyes. (Don't use that, "but gay people might not find the guy attractive"... I might not find every woman in the change room attractive, but I bet I'd find a couple I'd enjoy sneaking a peek at).

The answer is very unclear, and rife with controversy. Having a "gay" dressing room would solve the issue, except, who'd want to be seen going in or out if they aren't "out"? Banning gays is flat out wrong. Perhaps its time we have just one change room? LOL I can imagine the bedlam with that... Maybe we should simply install "changing stalls" and do away with group showers and clothing-optional steam rooms? There's no obvious solution, but it is a problem.

[ben voyonsdonc]

I sincerely hope that you didn't think I was being serious. I was trying to point out the absurdity in GreenTeaFrapps argument.

Gay men (like me BTW) have self-control in situations like locker rooms. A closeted gay man has to be even more careful or their secret will be revealed.

Segregating openly gay men in separate locker rooms will push gay men deeper into the closet.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

James is a pedophile...there is a difference between being gay and being a pedophile. Most pedophiles would say that they are straight -- it is the age of the child that is more attractive than the gender of the child.

There is a difference between being gay and being a pedophile. Not all gays are pedophiles and not all pedophiles are gay but you can be a gay pedophile like James is.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

I sincerely hope that you didn't think I was being serious. I was trying to point out the absurdity in GreenTeaFrapps argument.

It wasn't an argument. It was a couple of questions. To call them absurd is idiotic.

[Thunderball]

I sincerely hope that you didn't think I was being serious. I was trying to point out the absurdity in GreenTeaFrapps argument.

Gay men (like me BTW) have self-control in situations like locker rooms. A closeted gay man has to be even more careful or their secret will be revealed.

Segregating openly gay men in separate locker rooms will push gay men deeper into the closet.

I think it is a serious thing. I agree that separate locker rooms is most likely a bad idea, however you have to acknowledge that like with women and men, men might feel uncomfortable with the knowledge that they might be in a compromising position with someone who might be attracted to them. Guys are pretty casual in the locker room, but they might have to consider doing away with group showers and what not. People have the right to be comfortable... all people, gay or straight, so a fair solution should be sought.

[ben voyonsdonc]

I agree that everybody has a right to feel comfortable -- if a team would like to build separate showers for those who would prefer to shower alone that is great. Personally, I don't like communal showers and would prefer showering alone. However, it shouldn't be done out of fear that gay players will fantasize about their teammates.

[Burninator]

He just apologized and said that he shouldn't have said anything at all. But obviously he still feels that way.

Actually he didn't aplogize or retract anything for that matter. He just said "I am sorry if anyone was offended. And it was a long weekend." That seems to be the typical response from celebrities/athletes, the nonapology-apology. They aren't sorry for the remarks, but sorry someone took offense to it.

It's like when someone starts a sentence with, "I don't mean to offend you..." followed by something offensive. Is really quite the copout, as was his apology.

[worth]

Well he obviously means what he said, so a real apology would just be a farce anyway. I don't think he should apologize for what he said, he can believe whatever he wants, although he should apologize for the way he said it and overall, it wasn't appropriate. but if he believes it, he shouldn't apologize for that.

[burn_baby_burn]

What I don't like about this is the double standard. Michael Richards uses ethnic slurs in public addressing a black man and he is seen as the devil. Which he should be. But a black man comes out and says straight up that he hates gay people. I havn't seen the media back lash yet. I don't see the differance between what Richards said and what Hardaway said. They are both hatefull and ignorant.

[GirlySports]

What I don't like about this is the double standard. Michael Richards uses ethnic slurs in public addressing a black man and he is seen as the devil. Which he should be. But a black man comes out and says straight up that he hates gay people. I havn't seen the media back lash yet. I don't see the differance between what Richards said and what Hardaway said. They are both hatefull and ignorant.

Shows you how far the black movement has gone and how much farther the gay movement has to go.

I believe in the media it still stems from the argument that you cannot choose to be black but can choose to be gay.

[JiriHrdina]

Shows you how far the black movement has gone and how much farther the gay movement has to go.

I believe in the media it still stems from the argument that you cannot choose to be black but can choose to be gay.

On semi-related note, I was reading a review of Eddie Murphy's "Delirious" (newly released version of it).

The reviewer noted how things HAVE changed to a degree, because when you are confronted with Murphy's liberal use of a certain derogatory term to describe gay people, as well as his AIDS/Gay People bit - it is no longer funny in the least, still shocking, but not in a good way.

Another example someone brought the other day to me was when Al Iafrate was quoted as saying "Empty net goals are for homos."

Imagine the outrage now if he said that?

But yeah still a long way to go.

[burn_baby_burn]

The thing that stands out the most to me about Hardaways comments are his lack of intelligence. Even if those were his thoughts and he was being honest. One would think that he would be smart enough to keep those comments to himself or at least not say them to the media. Now if Mike Tyson says something like this nobody raises an eyebrow because eveyone assumes he is just an animal. I mean, how many people hate their boss. But do you go up to the intercom at work and say that he is a selfish moron?

Maybe comments like Hardaways prove that a large number of people still feel this way about homosexuals. I still have debates with people who beleive that being gay is a choice and it has something to do with how you were raised. In my younger years as a teenager I may have said similar things about homosexuals. But that was because I was naive and didn't understand. Now I know better.

[Dion]

Hardaway's reputation went down the toliet with his bigoted comments. He can apologise all he wants but the damage has been done. When you say you hate someone any apologies would sound hollow.

Kudos to David Stern for banning Hardaway from this years All Star fesitivities in Vegas.

Amaechi was interviewed on CNN and he said he doesn't accept Hardaway's apology.

[Hakan]

There is a difference between being gay and being a pedophile. Not all gays are pedophiles and not all pedophiles are gay but you can be a gay pedophile like James is.
And you can also be straight and be a pedophile.

What the heck is your point then?

[GreenTeaFrapp]

And you can also be straight and be a pedophile.

What the heck is your point then?

That the quote:

I would say "ALL gay people are pretty harmless and wouldn't try anything in the locker room"

is false.

[moon]

Another example someone brought the other day to me was when Al Iafrate was quoted as saying "Empty net goals are for homos."

Imagine the outrage now if he said that?

But yeah still a long way to go.

I am sure people say it (or something like it) almost everyday in the sports world, just not to the media. BUt in the lockeroom, on the court, in practice I am sure similar type things are said. I still hear it when out with friends or playing sports.

[ben voyonsdonc]

That the quote:

Quote:
I would say "ALL gay people are pretty harmless and wouldn't try anything in the locker room"

is false. Come on. Hardaway is talking about grown men sharing locker rooms with other grown men. Not with little boys. The Graham James analogy is completely irrelevant and is a clear attempt to link pedophilia and homosexuality. Unfortunately (for you), you have only clearly proven the link between homophobia and stupidity.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Come on. Hardaway is talking about grown men sharing locker rooms with other grown men. Not with little boys.

WHL players are hardly little boys.


The Graham James analogy is completely irrelevant and is a clear attempt to link pedophilia and homosexuality.

You have a gay man who in all likelihood tried something with the guys in the locker room. But clearly that fact doesn't fit your agenda so you try to dismiss it.

Unfortunately (for you), you have only clearly proven the link between homophobia and stupidity.

The link is that stupid people will throw around the word homophobia when they don't like what they hear.

You want another example of a gay man trying something in the locker room? Try Terry Garvin.

[mykalberta]

He said what 99% of current professional athletes in NA would say if they were guarateed not to have it affect their earnings potential.

When someone on this forum goes to work and have a gay coworker, that is for 40 hours a week. You dont have to share a room wth them at night, you dont go out for dinner, you dont change in the same room as they do, you dont have to answeres questions about your coworkers to the media so for anyone on this board (apart from maybe Toker) to compare their working situation to that of a pro athletes holds no water.

If you are gay, fine, go along and be gay and keep it to your damn self. I dont go around telling people I am hetrosexual. Get over your selves and live your own damn life and leave me out of it. I dont need to know you are gay.

Thanks Tim for at least telling your perspective of the truth (even though it should have been worded more carefully in this BS PC world we live in).

MYK

[burn_baby_burn]

He said what 99% of current professional athletes in NA would say if they were guarateed not to have it affect their earnings potential.

When someone on this forum goes to work and have a gay coworker, that is for 40 hours a week. You dont have to share a room wth them at night, you dont go out for dinner, you dont change in the same room as they do, you dont have to answeres questions about your coworkers to the media so for anyone on this board (apart from maybe Toker) to compare their working situation to that of a pro athletes holds no water.

50 - 60 years ago, the same was probably said about black athletes.

[JiriHrdina]

If you are gay, fine, go along and be gay and keep it to your damn self. I dont go around telling people I am hetrosexual. Get over your selves and live your own damn life and leave me out of it. I dont need to know you are gay.


MYK

Do you talk about your wife/girlfriend, even in passing?

Then you are doing the same thing.

[RougeUnderoos]

He said what 99% of current professional athletes in NA would say if they were guarateed not to have it affect their earnings potential.

When someone on this forum goes to work and have a gay coworker, that is for 40 hours a week. You dont have to share a room wth them at night, you dont go out for dinner, you dont change in the same room as they do, you dont have to answeres questions about your coworkers to the media so for anyone on this board (apart from maybe Toker) to compare their working situation to that of a pro athletes holds no water.

If you are gay, fine, go along and be gay and keep it to your damn self. I dont go around telling people I am hetrosexual. Get over your selves and live your own damn life and leave me out of it. I dont need to know you are gay.

Thanks Tim for at least telling your perspective of the truth (even though it should have been worded more carefully in this BS PC world we live in).

MYK

The truth? What do you mean the truth? Homosexuality shouldn't be "in the world or in the United States". ?

I wonder if maybe you could word that specific "truth" so it sounds acceptable in this BS PC world we live in.

[Thunderball]

50 - 60 years ago, the same was probably said about black athletes.

Very good point.

Just to play a little devil's advocate though, homosexual concerns and racial concerns are two different things. One is ridiculous, superficial, and based on a class system that thankfully no longer exists... the other deals with sexuality, which is a serious issue, even to the "BS PC" crowd. Straight men have every right to be apprehensive about gay men in the locker room, just like straight women have every right to be apprehensive about straight men in the locker room. Like I mentioned before, put me in the ladies locker room, I won't be attracted to every woman I see for sure, but I'd definitely find a few I wouldn't mind showering beside, and therein lies the problem. Everyone has self-control, but there is also basic instinct. That's why we have separate change rooms, and that whole scenario has to be addressed by society.

With that, its a little beyond concerning when apprehension goes that extra step into hatred.

[Sainters7]

Gay actor George Takai(from original Star Trek) gives his rebuttal. Damn funny: http://www.influks.com/post897.html

[burn_baby_burn]

Very good point.

Just to play a little devil's advocate though, homosexual concerns and racial concerns are two different things. One is ridiculous, superficial, and based on a class system that thankfully no longer exists... the other deals with sexuality, which is a serious issue, even to the "BS PC" crowd. Straight men have every right to be apprehensive about gay men in the locker room, just like straight women have every right to be apprehensive about straight men in the locker room. Like I mentioned before, put me in the ladies locker room, I won't be attracted to every woman I see for sure, but I'd definitely find a few I wouldn't mind showering beside, and therein lies the problem. Everyone has self-control, but there is also basic instinct. That's why we have separate change rooms, and that whole scenario has to be addressed by society.

With that, its a little beyond concerning when apprehension goes that extra step into hatred.

Yeah there are differances. But if you change at the gym, or at a public swimming pool. There could be gay men there as well. In fact there could be openly gay men there.

[troutman]

Gay actor George Takai(from original Star Trek) gives his rebuttal. Damn funny: http://www.influks.com/post897.html


OMG! LOL FUNNY!

[kipperfan]

Gay actor George Takai(from original Star Trek) gives his rebuttal. Damn funny: http://www.influks.com/post897.html

That was great! What a perfect response.

[itcrossedtheline]

Not sure if anyone saw this

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/070222&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1

[RougeUnderoos]

Not sure if anyone saw this

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/070222&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1

I've seen it now and he still comes across as a moron.

But Tim, you've been in Miami for years now and there is a strong and public gay community there. How have you still held on to that same mentality while living in Miami all of these years?
I just get away from it. I just walk away. I see it, I just go the other way, cross the street.


Q:I've had people roll up on me and say that something must have happened to you in your life to make you feel the way that you do about gays.

"Now did something happen to me? No. But I did have a friend that something happened to him in a Catholic school, but that is another can of worms that it's not my place to open because it's not my life. But to answer your question, "No." Nothing happened to me."

Nice work. "I don't hate gay people, but I won't go near them". That's good Timmy. He's a real misunderstood humanitarian obviously.

It is impressive how connects pedophile priests and homosexuality so seamlessly. I'm sure if some greasy priest did his thing to a little girl he knew then he would be suspicious of heterosexuals as well, and he would have brought it up in this context.