China Tests Surface to Space Missile

[jolinar of malkshor]

China confirmed on Tuesday that it carried out an anti-satellite weapons test earlier this month but said it has no plans to take part in an international space arms race.
China used a missile on Jan. 11 to destroy an old weather satellite located about 865 kilometres above the Earth. According to U.S. intelligence reports, China tested a ground-based medium-range missile.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/01/23/china-confirmation.html

Not that this bothers me much but this is the exact reason why Canada should be cooperating with the US in building a defence shield.

[Bobblehead]

I read about this last week.

At that time there wasn't any confirmations of it, but China had moved the satellite into an orbit that is much easier to hit from the ground, the satellite had suddenly disappeared, and there had been a rocket liftoff in China, so it was pretty sure that this test had taken place.

[TheDragon]

China confirmed on Tuesday that it carried out an anti-satellite weapons test earlier this month but said it has no plans to take part in an international space arms race.
China used a missile on Jan. 11 to destroy an old weather satellite located about 865 kilometres above the Earth. According to U.S. intelligence reports, China tested a ground-based medium-range missile.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/01/23/china-confirmation.html

Not that this bothers me much but this is the exact reason why Canada should be cooperating with the US in building a defence shield.

I'm pretty sure the US will leave a spot at the table for them, though, right beside Iran and North Korea.

I, too, would like to see Canada develop some kind of anti-ballistic defence.

[CaptainCrunch]

I love it when countries test an apparent weapon's technology and then say they have no intention of joining the arms race, whether nuclear or space based or whatever.

There's a reason why they sank billions of dollars into developing the technology.

We all know that there's a fairly large gap in the use of space based intelligence between the U.S. and any other nation in the world, if your ever going to war with the U.S. the first thing that your going to want to do in negate what is a huge advantage. Secondarily there have always been rumors that the U.S. and Russia had developed FOBS platforms, so a Anti Satellite missile is a nice way to counter that threat.

[eazyduzzit]

...and some people believe China envy's Irans capabilities...

I believe they can only strike spy sattelites and not so much the ones which guide weapons. Nevertheless wepaons aren't much use if they can't find a target. But there is a short term solution of putting these sattelites higher in orbit if the time should arise - such as a standoff over Taiwan.

[Looger]

...and some people believe China envy's Irans capabilities...
and some confuse all 'capabilities' with reverse engineering 'capabilities'...

i hear that this weapon was actually a kinetic energy weapon, as in what the US strategic defense initiative named a very crude furled-out fan.

any insight?

[CaptainCrunch]

and some confuse all 'capabilities' with reverse engineering 'capabilities'...

i hear that this weapon was actually a kinetic energy weapon, as in what the US strategic defense initiative named a very crude furled-out fan.

any insight?


Not sure if your using the right terminology Looger. A Kinetic Energy Weapon would be like the theoretical Rods from God which uses Kinetic energy to create a destructive effect.

The Weapon that your thinking of was codenamed the Flange (sp?) by the U.S. airforce and deployed a huge umbrella to do skin to skin kills on Re-entry warheads. I don't think it would be applicable because Satellites can be moved from the ground as a defense against the concept of brilliant pebbles.

The American's have some nuclear tipped ASAT as part of the Nike Zeus evolution.

[SaskaBushFire]

Does this all go back to the States proposed "Star Wars" program?

Who was the PM at the time who declined the offer?

[Oxygen-Supply]

I, too, would like to see Canada develop some kind of anti-ballistic defence.

Yeah. Slingshots and pebbles.

Canada military news flash – The Canadian government has approved a study into developing extra stretchy rubber bands.
----



I do agree, we should be working with the USA on a anti-ballistic defence.

[Looger]

Not sure if your using the right terminology Looger. A Kinetic Energy Weapon would be like the theoretical Rods from God which uses Kinetic energy to create a destructive effect.
oops, you're right - but i should add that i was thinking of a different anti-satellite weapon, the term 'kinetic energy weapon' seems to get around. lately it's emerged as the rods from god but in a previous life it referred to some kind of gas-gun in space.
The Weapon that your thinking of was codenamed the Flange (sp?) by the U.S. airforce and deployed a huge umbrella to do skin to skin kills on Re-entry warheads. I don't think it would be applicable because Satellites can be moved from the ground as a defense against the concept of brilliant pebbles.
yeah, that's the one i was thinking of. i heard on the syndicated 'US radio news' (not a great source but it's on thousands of stations down there) that it was some kind of direct-impact weapon.
The American's have some nuclear tipped ASAT as part of the Nike Zeus evolution.
never heard of that - but a friend of mine who's worked for the canadian space agency and bristol / magellan aerospace has said that a bag of sand in a faster / reverse orbit on the same plane would be the best way to down satellites. i wouldn't think you need a lot of force, those things are fragile.

[CaptainCrunch]

never heard of that - but a friend of mine who's worked for the canadian space agency and bristol / magellan aerospace has said that a bag of sand in a faster / reverse orbit on the same plane would be the best way to down satellites. i wouldn't think you need a lot of force, those things are fragile.

Nike Zeus was an interesting concept because it married a heavy high powered missile with a nuclear warhead to an F15, the Russian's stole the idea for the Mig 31 and suppossedly lost a lot of planes during testing to unstable and badly manufactured solid fuel boosters.

The Theory is that a grain of sand sitting in earth orbit and getting hit by a satellite traveling at thousands of miles an hour is like you or I getting hit with a high velocity bullet traveling at the speed of light, there's nothing to stop it at all. The brilliant pebble was a concept like that where it would intercept a satallites orbit from the opposite direction creating an instand and unavoidable kill.

[Looger]

Nike Zeus was an interesting concept because it married a heavy high powered missile with a nuclear warhead to an F15, the Russian's stole the idea for the Mig 31 and suppossedly lost a lot of planes during testing to unstable and badly manufactured solid fuel boosters.
i have heard of that, just couldn't remember what it was called.

something like 1984 or so for the f-15 test.

single stage to low earth orbit, launched from very high altitude, like ceiling.

i'd imagine anything the americans do the russians try, and vice versa - though they tend to test at (ahem) earlier stages of development, and if they lose a few planes and pilots without any help for the project, well that's ok...

surprised they waited for the MiG-31 and didn't use up a bunch of old -25's, maybe it couldn't reach the launch height.

[Coolsurfer79]

I'm pretty sure the US will leave a spot at the table for them, though, right beside Iran and North Korea.

I, too, would like to see Canada develop some kind of anti-ballistic defence.

Difference is China is on the path to becoming the world's largest economy in the foreseable future, and is also a major holder of US debt. Also, a missile defense shield would probably be useless against a country such as China. They could use alternative measures to eliminate it's effectiveness. They also have too a large an arsenal at there disposal. China is not some "rogue" nation. It's an emerging super power.

[Bobblehead]

A Kinetic Energy Weapon would be like the theoretical Rods from God which uses Kinetic energy to create a destructive effect.

Are these "Rods from Gods" similar to the rail gun that was just tested (http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/01/aprailgun070117/)?

[Hack&Lube]

If China starts buying the Mig contracts from Russia and upgrades the avionics with modern technology, they'll have a comparable air force.

[CaptainCrunch]

If China starts buying the Mig contracts from Russia and upgrades the avionics with modern technology, they'll have a comparable air force.

I don't know about a comparable airforce. The American's next leap forward in aircraft, communications and precision munitions will jump it a full generation ahead. Combine that with the amount of actual air combat experience that thier pilots have and you have a pretty big advantage.

The chinese have the advantage in raw numbers, but American fight co-ordination evens the odds and even shifts any combat scenario into thier favor.

Just my 2 cents though

[CaptainCrunch]

Are these "Rods from Gods" similar to the rail gun that was just tested (http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/01/aprailgun070117/)?

Its a similar concept except instead of a normal bullet a Rod from god is a super high density tungsten filliment errr Rod. Its designed to punch through the earth to take out bunkers and fuel depots that are deep underground.

What your talking about in that link sounds a lot like Steel Rain which uses an electromagnetic pulse to fire a bullet at high speds, howerver the Steel rain fires at an incredible rate (name since changed) that can fire several thousand bullets per minute without damaging the barrel through the lack of conventional gunpowder. The advantage of this Steel rain project is it can be mounted on anything up to and including ships and aircraft, is easy to maintain and can fire anything from standard cartridge less rounds to 40 mm grenades. (can you imagine someone firing several thousand 40 mm grenades at your position in a flash of an eye?)

Steel Rain was also dubbed as a possible replacement for the phalanx anti missile system.

Its a future weapon right now, but its undergoing testing.

[Burninator]

Rods from God. Rail gun. Steel Rain.

These sound like their from video games. So have weapon developers been playing more video games? Or have video game creators been watching the military?

[FlamesAddiction]

I have to admit that I am not that into weapons and things like that, but if China did launch a missile from the ground and destroyed a satellite in orbit, isn't that quite a feat? It doesn't strike me as something that would be easy to do. Perhaps that is the real reason other countries are condemning it. Similar to how Canada's Arrow project was frowned upon by the U.S.

[CaptainCrunch]

Rods from God. Rail gun. Steel Rain.

These sound like their from video games. So have weapon developers been playing more video games? Or have video game creators been watching the military?

Its funny, I had a discussion like that with a friend of mine thats involved in weapons research, and for the most part its the game manufacturer thats taking real world concepts and converting them to in game weapons. However once in a while the gamers come up with weapons that really get the attention of weapons manufacturers. The BFG from doom would be an idea of that.

[CaptainCrunch]

I have to admit that I am not that into weapons and things like that, but if China did launch a missile from the ground and destroyed a satellite in orbit, isn't that quite a feat? It doesn't strike me as something that would be easy to do. Perhaps that is the real reason other countries are condemning it. Similar to how Canada's Arrow project was frowned upon by the U.S.

Its a huge feat, your launching a missile to take out a satellite in high orbit thats traveling at several thousand miles per hours and dosen't generate a lot of heat. ABM and Antisat technology are still the sexiest areas of research because for the most part both technologies save lives.

[Burninator]

Its funny, I had a discussion like that with a friend of mine thats involved in weapons research, and for the most part its the game manufacturer thats taking real world concepts and converting them to in game weapons. However once in a while the gamers come up with weapons that really get the attention of weapons manufacturers. The BFG from doom would be an idea of that.

Well tell your friend to get on inventing the gravity gun from half-life 2. That should mix things up a bit.

[CaptainCrunch]

Well tell your friend to get on inventing the gravity gun from half-life 2. That should mix things up a bit.


I wish he was in the actual design of weapons, I have a pesky squirrel problem that a proton accelerator would take care of nicely. But he does do weapons analysis and capability research.