My FIX for the CFL

[mykalberta]

This is more of a, if "If I had a million dollars" * 250 rant.

Me and my friends have been debating how to fix the CFL, to turn it into a respectable league rather than a "bush" league. Well here it goes.

If I was a Billionaire(say 5bil), I would spend 250 mil to buy the CFL and all teams/names/trademarks etc.

Here is how i see the teams breaking down the money:

Edmonton - 38mil (mostly due to the Stadium).
Toronto - 35mil (because of the market size and available facility)
Vancouver - 30mil (because of market size and available facility)
Calgary - 24mil (market/facility)
Montreal - 20mil (+market size -facility)
Hamilton - 20mil (facility)
Saskatchewan - 18mil (brand loyalty)
Winnipeg - 16mil

I realize some of the numbers might be off but considering an NHL team like Calgary or Edmonton is worth say 85-110mil I think those numbers are fair for a league that already has a tough time making money.

I would then institue the following:

(Immediately) Start stadium construction in Halifax for a new team - about 25-30K seats

(Immediately) Start stadium construction in Toronto for a second team - I am thinking the Richmond Hill area - about 28-35K seats

(~5 year wait) Start stadium construction in Vancouver for second team - I am thinking the New Westminster area - about 25-32K seats

(~5 Year wait) Start stadium construction in Quebec City - 25-32K seats

(Immediately) Start stadium construction in Montreal for about 28-35K seats - to replace existing stadium

That would allow for a 12 team league in the end:

West: Van1 Van2 Edm Cgy Ssk Win
East: Tor1 Tor2 Ham Mont QueC Halifax

That would also allow for a Thursday game, double header Friday, Triple Header Saturday (sometime doubleheader).

You also start a Canadian Sports channel - that is centred around the CFL but also carries other stuff for filler the rest of the year, curling etc -maybe partner with the CBC.

You have 1 draft team that could go to Colleges and High Schools in the states to recruit talent. This would also hopefully kickstart collge football in Canada - I would probably invest say 7mil/year in football related athletic scholarships for Canada as well as improving the minor football system.

I see the whole venture probably costing in the neighbourhood of 400-500mil -> upfront cost, stadiums etc - you should beable to risk share the stadiums with SoccerCanada/Rugby Canada, the cities and the provinces.

I realize its unlikely any normal business man would do this as the return on investment is maybe 2-4%/anum.

I see this as more of a Eugene Melnik/OTPP type deal. Where they have a boat load of cash, want to keep their money in Canada but dont want to waste it either.

I envision Dan Kepley from the Esks as being the head of CFL Football Operations as co CEO and someone else, likely a marketing guy as the other co CEO - maybe the "I am Canadian" marketing manager.

There would be other things but that is enough for now.

My problem is I dont see the league progressing where it needs to be by itself, when you mix community owners and private owners its just a mash of garbage. If this doesnt happen, I see the league expanding to the US in the next 10 years for expansion revenue (Canada would be better but the lack of suitable stadiums is the problem).

MYK

[ken0042]

(Immediately) Start stadium construction in Toronto for a second team - I am thinking the Richmond Hill area - about 28-35K seats

(~5 year wait) Start stadium construction in Vancouver for second team - I am thinking the New Westminster area - about 25-32K seats

I guess my question is this- would those areas be able to support 2 teams? Up until last season Toronto and Vancouver were at the bottom of the league for attendance; often just getting 20K people into the 50K capacity stadiums.

[Cheese]

Id put a team in kitchener waterloo or london before another in toronto....and on the wet coast Id put one in Victoria. I think even Saskatoon would support a rivalry with Regina.
My first two expansion teams would be Halifax and Quebec...and serious consideration to kitchener or London.

I would make the cfl a farm system of the NFL with a clause to allow 50% of rosters to be filled by Canadian players.

[worth]

I don't think that there's any way that either toronto or vancouver would or could support a second team. or for that matter victoria or sakatoon. Regina draws 25,000 average from the entire province. There's no way that they could suport 2 teams.

a more realistic approach (imo) to the 12 team league would be:

west
BC
Calgary
Edmonton
Saskatchewan

Central
winnipeg
Hamilton
Toronto
Windsor or another southern ontario city

east
Ottawa
Montreal
Quebec City
Halifax

Then you can have top 2 teams from each division make the playoffs or something like that.

I can definetly see Quebec city supporting a team and a huge rivalry between tham and montreal would develop.

Halifax is a bit of a wildcard. They need a stadium.

TSN purchases all the CFL games and rents some of them out to CBC. I doubt very much that TSN would let their games go to another channel. CFL games do very well consistently beating NFL games no matter when they are.

The CFL needs 10 teams and thats where i see them going. Ottawa in 08 and hopefully another out east somewhere. Not sure, but Halifax was hoping for some kind of commonwaelth or other games or something where they would get funding to build a facility that would include a stadium. not sure if that fell through, but if it did happen to go through then I could see a team in halifax.

I see 10 teams as realistic, 12 as plausible in the distant future.

And I would ABSOLUTLEY NOT make the CFL a farm team for NFL. there's no way that that would work, or fly with the majority of CFL fans. 2 different games. Seems counterproductive to me. Anyway, thats what NFL Europe is for. NFL doesn't want anything to do with Canada or the CFL.

[ken0042]

TSN purchases all the CFL games and rents some of them out to CBC.

Are you sure? That just doesn't make any sense to me. Why would TSN not be airing the playoff and Grey Cup games? I would think that just like other sports, the networks bid on the different games. In fact a few years ago the CFL told CBC that if they didn't start picking up games before Labour Day, then they would give the playoffs and the Grey Cup to TSN.

NFL doesn't want anything to do with Canada or the CFL.

Doesn't the NFL have something in place with the CFL now? Not a farm system, but they do give the CFL a bunch of cash for opperations; because it is in their best interest to have a lesser league in North America.

[worth]

I'm 99% positive TSN purchases all the games from the CFL. They then turn around and sell CBC what games they want including playoffs.

It might be a stipulation in the contract or something. The CFL wants CBC to air the playoffs because they will get bigger numbers. Everyone with a TV in Canada can get CBC. You need cable to get TSN obviously.

Now that doesn't mean that the CBC won't totally pull out of the CFL and leave it for TSN/CTV. I haev heard of that idea. They would air the grey cup on CTV because more people get that channel also.

Yeah, there is an agreement between the CFL and NFL however I don't know the specifics. What I was getting at is that the NFL doesn't want to expand into Canada right now, no matter how much Toronto wants it, and they already have thier own farm league in NFLEurope. They don't need the CFL and i'm not so sure they'd want to take on a league with some of the problems the CFL has had. The NFL has become a great league by making smart decisions. Purchasing the CFL wouldn't be very smart IMO. And thats not a diss against the CFL. The CFL is my favourite league with the NHL a close second.

Here's an article on the agreement:

http://www.wowfootball.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=325

It doens't really have anything to do with the CFL, rather its players.

[ken0042]

I see what you are saying.

I suppose it is possible that TSN had an agreement with CBC, but I can see that changing because now you no longer need cable to get TSN. Anybody in Canada with a view of the southern sky can get TSN. Of course that is a seperate discussion all together. :)

[JohnnyFlame]

I would broker a deal with the NFL and eventually ESPN/TSN. We would become a developmental league for them with secure financing in place for every team. Plus the money to upgrade all the stadiums. Bring in the NFL expertise with advertising/marketing etc. and a consistent brand of football.

Good stadiums and a well run league -- Fans would forget the Mickey Mouse CFL version dang near instantly.

[Frank@75]

Excellant post. The number one problem with the CFL is the conditions
of the stadiums. The Hamilton Stadium is a disaster that Harold Ballard
tried to get bulldozed twenty years ago. With a dual (football/soccer) facility in Hamilton, average football crowds of 35,000 would be very possible. There is talk in Toronto about a 30,000 seat stadium for soocer in North York, I don't know where that is going. There is also talk in Winnipeg about a new home for the Bombers.

The bottom line is that the goverment can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on projects that are politically correct, but hold the purse strings
on facilities that may help private team owners, even though the fans of these teams are taxpayers and voters as well.

[worth]

You know, I have been watching some of the grey cups from the 90's on fox sports world and they were carried on ESPN2! Games that didn't even involve American teams were broadcast. Amazing. Hell, ESPN8 won't even broadcast NHL games with American teams, let alone CFL games now a days.

I can agree that the CFL needs some better marketing. I mean, hell, we need to turn these guys into heros. In the states commercials have nfl players in them. Lets get some of these CFL players out there. Get some sponsorship going and get people involved and aware of the league.

And I didn't know you don't need cable to get TSN anymore. interesting.

And here, found something about TSN selling games to CBC:

"TSN is the master rights-holder for the CFL, but sublicenses selected games, including the playoffs, to CBC."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSN

[RedHot25]

(Immediately) Start stadium construction in Halifax for a new team - about 25-30K seats

(~5 year wait) Start stadium construction in Vancouver for second team - I am thinking the New Westminster area - about 25-32K seats



Have you lived in/been to either of these places?

1) Halifax

Its a nice area, but the economics is just not here, I'm sorry. Its a very fragile economic situation. Yes, it may have 3 - 400,000 people....but..I just question the economic viability here.

Also, they aren't as big on the CFL - NFL is definately big here (more than what naturally occurs across the country).

And the stadium iproblem s huge. They don't have one. Period. I know that you are advocating building one if you had the $$, but....one won't be built here unless they get the Commonwealth Games.

Anyways, I just can't see it.

2) New Westminister

As Ken said, Vancouver has a hard enough time supporting 1 team, let alone another.

IF you did put another team in there, why New West? Same thing as Halifax above. It is one of the poorer areas of the Vancouver region and is quite rundown in certain spots etc. I just don't see that area being able to financially support a team. If anything you go towards Richmond (likely too close) or out Coquitlam/Port Coquitlam/Port Moody/etc way.

Just my thoughts anyways.

cheers.

[worth]

Just though of one other thing, we're talking about fixing the CFL...well, the CFL is pretty much the strongest it's been in years. I think we're on the right track with things and doesn't really need to be fixed. It can be improved upon for sure, but we have been going the right way.

I mean, every game was on TV, attendance is stable and approaching an average of 29,000 a game which is great, a team will be back in Ottawa, stable ownership in pretty much all the franchises, a salary management system and over 4 million people watching the grey cup! Seems pretty good to me.

The one reservation I have is the new comissioner. Hopefully they can find someone as good or better than Mr. Wright. I think it's a shame they forced him out. Best comissioner the CFL has had in a long time IMO. I just really hope we don't get some yes man that will nose dive the CFL out of it's current success doing the bidding of the BOG rather than whats right for the league.

That's the economic side...I suppose there are a few things to do that can make the onfield entertainment better. Games wern't as exciting this year unfortunatley. Hopefully we can bring a bit of that excitement back next year, even though I really enjoyed this year. I guess thats just because i'm a hardcore CFL fan and will watch the most boring CFL game with undivided attention.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Here is how i see the teams breaking down the money:

Edmonton - 38mil (mostly due to the Stadium).
Toronto - 35mil (because of the market size and available facility)
Vancouver - 30mil (because of market size and available facility)
Calgary - 24mil (market/facility)
Montreal - 20mil (+market size -facility)
Hamilton - 20mil (facility)
Saskatchewan - 18mil (brand loyalty)
Winnipeg - 16mil



You're paying way too much for almost all these teams. Consider the last time the Stamps sold it was for something like $8 million was it not? When Ottawa re-joined the league it cost $4 million in expansion fees.

Also, Calgary doesn't own the facility - the U of C does.

[KTown]

If I had 5 billion I would buy the CFL

FOLD THE DAMN LEAGUE.

OPEN UP AN NFL FRANCHISE IN TORONTO

[worth]

If you really don't like it that much, why don't you just ignore it and leave the millions of people who do like it alone. :rolleyes:

[calgaryrocks]

if i had 5 billion i would provide a hd truck to cbc so they can do east and west finals in high def. i would put a team in ottawa and place ads on tv for the cfl. i would tell halifax and quebec city that whatever city can get people to buy the most season tickets i will build them a stadum so that they can have thier team. i would create buy time on every canadian channel and every american channel that we see in canada and put cfl ads on them. i would pay tsn to not show the nfl, just focus on the cfl and make the tv production better. i would set up a pension program for cfl players on par with the nfl. i would add 10000 seats in montreal, 5000 in hamilton and market the game in border states such as maine, new york, south dakota and wisconson. put a team in windsor and market it to detroit fans if halifax/quebec city doesnt work. make it so that either canadian players dont count under the salary cap or just canadian qbs dont count under the cap, encouraging canadians to try to play qb.
would give teams with higher fan support more room under the cap. grey cup game would be cycled through all the cfl cities. protect the league from certain canadians who want the league to fold for some reason(maybe because they are hoping for an nfl team or dont like canadian football so much they dont want the millions of canadians who watch it weekly to enjoy it)

[calgaryrocks]

If I had 5 billion I would buy the CFL

FOLD THE DAMN LEAGUE.

OPEN UP AN NFL FRANCHISE IN TORONTO
you keep saying this but why would you want to fold a league and toronto will never get an nfl team, if the cfl were to fold the nfl would never come to a country that couldnt support its own game. a toronto team would not have the atmosphere that the nfl teams get becuase canada is a different country and i understand the atmospher and tailgating experience at nfl games i very important to you. if you want this type of fan support its up to people to change, not the type of football.

[Red Mile Style]

Id put a team in kitchener waterloo or london before another in toronto....and on the wet coast Id put one in Victoria. I think even Saskatoon would support a rivalry with Regina.
My first two expansion teams would be Halifax and Quebec...and serious consideration to kitchener or London.

I would make the cfl a farm system of the NFL with a clause to allow 50% of rosters to be filled by Canadian players.

Whoa... you just blew my mind!!!

Two teams in Sask?!?!?!

I don't know if I should giggle uncontrollably, or cry at the thought of dividing the fans.

I bet there would be a pretty fierce rivalry between the two. The commute to Regina probably thwarts a lot of fans from the North of Sask... so it might work.

Yeah, I would do that. And as many on here have mentioned, there needs to be a maritime team in there... Even if it's a team that represents more than just Halifax or Nova Scotia, I'm thinking something like "the maritime lobsters" or something along those lines. Quebec city, obviously is an untapped market. Get Ottawa back running. Victoria is an interesting thought, but is there a stadium there as well?

What about Thunder Bay?

[Resolute 14]

Centralized ownership is a bad idea.

Someone in an office in Calgary has no idea whatsoever what the needs of the Vancouver, Montreal or Toronto markets are.

[Cheese]

Whoa... you just blew my mind!!!

Two teams in Sask?!?!?!

I don't know if I should giggle uncontrollably, or cry at the thought of dividing the fans.

I bet there would be a pretty fierce rivalry between the two. The commute to Regina probably thwarts a lot of fans from the North of Sask... so it might work.

Yeah, I would do that. And as many on here have mentioned, there needs to be a maritime team in there... Even if it's a team that represents more than just Halifax or Nova Scotia, I'm thinking something like "the maritime lobsters" or something along those lines. Quebec city, obviously is an untapped market. Get Ottawa back running. Victoria is an interesting thought, but is there a stadium there as well?

What about Thunder Bay?

Tunder Bay is too isolated. Same with the Sault. Cant see that market supporting a team as there is no community close by...just Tunder Bay.
If another team camer to Ontario it would have to be Suthn Ontario...KW is 500,000 people...London is 600,000. Someone mentioned Windsor, but I dont think theyd support it as Detroit is right across the river and Id assume they go to Lions games....but then with the Lions as suckage maybe theyd draw Lions fans across the border? LOL
As to Saskatoon...many here think that Regina draws a ton of Tooners to its games...but thats not true.

[Frank the Tank]

Tunder Bay is too isolated. Same with the Sault. Cant see that market supporting a team as there is no community close by...just Tunder Bay.
If another team camer to Ontario it would have to be Suthn Ontario...KW is 500,000 people...London is 600,000. Someone mentioned Windsor, but I dont think theyd support it as Detroit is right across the river and Id assume they go to Lions games....but then with the Lions as suckage maybe theyd draw Lions fans across the border? LOL
As to Saskatoon...many here think that Regina draws a ton of Tooners to its games...but thats not true.

There are only 350,000 people in London Cheese. I don't think we could ever support a CFL franchise.

[Cheese]

There are only 350,000 people in London Cheese. I don't think we could ever support a CFL franchise.

LOL...well damn...thought you guys were bigger than that! Fine...you dont deserve a team then! WAIT...Regina is only 250 grand or so...Winterpeg is only 400k I think. Your back in!

WAIT

Check this census...you are over 400 my man. 432 as of 2001.
http://www.demographia.com/db-cancma.htm

[Frank the Tank]

LOL...well damn...thought you guys were bigger than that! Fine...you dont deserve a team then! WAIT...Regina is only 250 grand or so...Winterpeg is only 400k I think. Your back in!

WAIT

Check this census...you are over 400 my man. 432 as of 2001.
http://www.demographia.com/db-cancma.htm

Well they need to update the damn signs in this city!!

[mykalberta]

I guess my question is this- would those areas be able to support 2 teams? Up until last season Toronto and Vancouver were at the bottom of the league for attendance; often just getting 20K people into the 50K capacity stadiums.

Because of the locations of each stadiums (downtown, waterfront) they are in essence not drawing the the full capacity of the City.

It is highly unlikely someone in Burnaby would drive/train it to see the lions, they may be a TV watcher but not a paying seat.

I believe the only reason their arent currently two teams in each of those cities is TV money, like in Buffalo the reason their wont be a NFL franchise in TO is the Bills.

This also creates instant rivalries and increases TV coverage in each of those markets - 2 of the 3 biggest in Canada.

MYK

[mykalberta]

Id put a team in kitchener waterloo or london before another in toronto....and on the wet coast Id put one in Victoria. I think even Saskatoon would support a rivalry with Regina.
My first two expansion teams would be Halifax and Quebec...and serious consideration to kitchener or London.

I would make the cfl a farm system of the NFL with a clause to allow 50% of rosters to be filled by Canadian players.

I thought about Victoria but I envisioned that to be about the same as a team in Ott.

Saskatoon is more of a team 13 14 as it doesnt add to TV viewership enough to justify the negative effects on the Riders "sask" aura.

Quebec city I think is ripe for the CFL, the problem is stadium.

I wouldnt make the CFL and NFL farm team, most Canadians outside of Calgary/Lethbridge/Red Deer are very weary of anything American. I think the current deal with the NFL is fine and I think the NFL would be more than happy to shut down NFL Europe if the CFL had a few more teams.

Also to turn the CFL into an NFL farm Team would take too much away from the game (field size etc) There are some rules in the CFL I hate, the 1 point for missed field goal or punt etc.

MYK

[Cheese]

Because of the locations of each stadiums (downtown, waterfront) they are in essence not drawing the the full capacity of the City.

It is highly unlikely someone in Burnaby would drive/train it to see the lions, they may be a TV watcher but not a paying seat.

I believe the only reason their arent currently two teams in each of those cities is TV money, like in Buffalo the reason their wont be a NFL franchise in TO is the Bills.

This also creates instant rivalries and increases TV coverage in each of those markets - 2 of the 3 biggest in Canada.

MYK

Nah I dont buy that. I know people who drive from North of Toronto to watch CFL...or even out here in KW. In Vancouver they hop on their monorail and get from Surrey area downtown in no time. Lots of people do it.
If the NHL wont do it the CFL could never support it.

[mykalberta]

I would broker a deal with the NFL and eventually ESPN/TSN. We would become a developmental league for them with secure financing in place for every team. Plus the money to upgrade all the stadiums. Bring in the NFL expertise with advertising/marketing etc. and a consistent brand of football.

Good stadiums and a well run league -- Fans would forget the Mickey Mouse CFL version dang near instantly.

The problem is the same problem the AHL has, its seen as nothing more than a proving ground.

The CFL has their own distinct rules and has had them for a long time.

You would kill all positives the CFL has going for it with a migration to the NFL. Also with the creation of an official tie with the NFL the NFLPA would then get witht he CFL players and the economics of the game in Canada would be shot. If you charge much more than $200/season ticket in the CFL you kill it.

Toronoto and Vancouver have to be able to support two teams given the proximity of the stadiums. It would be like if the Stamps had their stadium in Chapparral, at that point you could easily put another team in Calgary in the NW.

500K people is more than enough to support the CFL given the appropriate stadium size, but putting a second team in Toronto and Vancouver increases TV revenue as well as buts in the seats revenue. Putting a second team in TO and Van also gives confidence to your boradcast partners that you want to help them.

As per TSN/CBC - There are currently two separate contracts, TSN bid for all the games but CBC bid for the Playoffs, TSN would have won but the CFL went to CBC and said you have to broadcast 1 Saturday game a week for the whole season. Before CBC started their Saturday coverage durring Labour Day.

MYK

[mykalberta]

Nah I dont buy that. I know people who drive from North of Toronto to watch CFL...or even out here in KW. In Vancouver they hop on their monorail and get from Surrey area downtown in no time. Lots of people do it.
If the NHL wont do it the CFL could never support it.

How many people in Medicne Hat/Cochrane/Airdie drive to Stamps games as a season ticket holder. If its more than 100 I would be very surprised.

Same in Edmonton with Leduc, Sherwood Park, St Albert - I would give Edmonton a higher number simply because those towns are alot closter but you get the idea. Me and my dad had season tix to the Esks for about 2 years until we got tired of the 75 minute drive + we had to get their at least an hour before to get parking.

I think the reason you get average 15-20K people in Toronoto in Vancouver is that simple. Middle class Canadians are the bread and butter of the CFL, not people who live in high rise condos. The stadium placement in Vancouver and Toronto are both on the edges of the city which doesnt do much for people who live burbs.

We will agree to disagree but what do you think the reason is for Chicago having two MLB franchises or NY having two. Agreed they are much larger markets but the same principle still applies.

Its just my own personal pipe dream anyways, no normal business person would buy the CFL outright, even if they had the desire, I dont know how the community owned teams would react.

MYK

[moon]

How many people in Medicne Hat/Cochrane/Airdie drive to Stamps games as a season ticket holder. If its more than 100 I would be very surprised.



I would be shocked if there weren't more than 100 people from Airdrie and Cochrane who were season ticket holders. Hell I wouldn't be that surprised to find out there 100 from Airdrie alone.

Medicine Hat/Lethbridge/Red Deer and you may have a point but the drive from Airdire and Cochrane certainly wouldn't deter people from going to the game in my view.

[Bench Warmer]

I would be shocked if there weren't more than 100 people from Airdrie and Cochrane who were season ticket holders. Hell I wouldn't be that surprised to find out there 100 from Airdrie alone.

Medicine Hat/Lethbridge/Red Deer and you may have a point but the drive from Airdire and Cochrane certainly wouldn't deter people from going to the game in my view.

There might be more Rider season ticket holders in Medicine Hat (there are a few) than Stamps season ticket holders. Either way, it's not a significant amount.

Interesting concept. The only way I think this works though is if the league drops it's talent and salaries to be able to break even getting 20,000 / game. Most of the CFL cities would hugely outdraw that but I can't see more than that going to games if you split BC and TO into 2 teams. These are cities not too far removed from near extinction due to poor attendance. Ottawa's never been able to support their team before - I don't see this changing in a bigger league. Halifax and Quebec would be cool and would support if they had stadiums.

[Cheese]

How many people in Medicne Hat/Cochrane/Airdie drive to Stamps games as a season ticket holder. If its more than 100 I would be very surprised.

Same in Edmonton with Leduc, Sherwood Park, St Albert - I would give Edmonton a higher number simply because those towns are alot closter but you get the idea. Me and my dad had season tix to the Esks for about 2 years until we got tired of the 75 minute drive + we had to get their at least an hour before to get parking.

I think the reason you get average 15-20K people in Toronoto in Vancouver is that simple. Middle class Canadians are the bread and butter of the CFL, not people who live in high rise condos. The stadium placement in Vancouver and Toronto are both on the edges of the city which doesnt do much for people who live burbs.

We will agree to disagree but what do you think the reason is for Chicago having two MLB franchises or NY having two. Agreed they are much larger markets but the same principle still applies.

Its just my own personal pipe dream anyways, no normal business person would buy the CFL outright, even if they had the desire, I dont know how the community owned teams would react.

MYK

Well...in reality Toronto draws 20-25,000 fans because they are more of an NFL city. Many actually have seasons ticks to the Bills and drive down for that. Vancouver is just...well the parallel I draw is that of LA...it doesnt have NFL either.

[getbak]

How many people in Medicne Hat/Cochrane/Airdie drive to Stamps games as a season ticket holder. If its more than 100 I would be very surprised.

I would think that people who live in Cochrane probably have an easier drive to McMahon than a lot of people in the far south.

I work with guy whose brother lives in Lethbridge and has Stamps season tickets. He doesn't always make it to the weeknight games early in the season, but after Labour Day all the games are on the weekend, so it isn't really a problem to get to those games from a couple of hours away.

[Sylvanfan]

What about the CFL season, do you like it starting in June and going thru summer when half the country is on vacation, or spending a month at the lake cottage? Our climate is a too cold to start the league in September, but I do wonder if they were to start the season in August and reduce it back to 16 games if it would work? Seems like crowds and interest in the league seem to pick up in September as thats when it feels like football seasson. Only problem would be that you'd be looking at playoff games close to Christmas.

[Antithesis]

I've always liked the way the CFL schedule was set up. If anything, I'd actually like it to start a little earlier in the year.

[KTown]

you keep saying this but why would you want to fold a league and toronto will never get an nfl team, if the cfl were to fold the nfl would never come to a country that couldnt support its own game. a toronto team would not have the atmosphere that the nfl teams get becuase canada is a different country and i understand the atmospher and tailgating experience at nfl games i very important to you. if you want this type of fan support its up to people to change, not the type of football.


I should have made my post look more sarcastic, sorry about that.

I'm from Ontario, and the NFL will thrive in Toronto. Everybody there is an NFL fan, not many CFL fans, growing up there and going to high school if we weren't talking hockey, we were talking NFL, NFL is huge there. Trust me.

Most Southern Ontario fans are Bills fans, not Argos fans or Ticats fans. If you had the choice to cheer for the best athletes in the world you'd do it. Unfortunately here we don't, we got the Seattle Seacocks, who are what a 14hr drive away. The bills are 1.5 hours from TO, 45 minutes from Hamilton and 2.5hrs from K-W area (where I'm from)

The man reason the NFL won't come here anytime soon is because the CFL and NFL have an agreement, isn't something like the NFL must give the CFL 3 million to sign a cfl Option player. I believe the agreement runs out this year.

If you see lots of success in the NFL game that will be played in TO, you can bet in our lifetime there will be an NFL franchise in TO.

Southern Ontario people are spolied they have the best athletes for every sport in North America that counts except football.

NHL, NBA, and MLB, there not gonna waste there time and money on a second rate product too them, the NFL exposure in souther ontario is huge.

I'm sorry I threw this thread off topic.

Unfortunately anybody with 5 billion and a decent business sense would do what I suggested and not re-build the CFL, however it's fantasy and everybody has a dream.

This is my two cents.

[Cheese]

The NFL will NOT be in Toronto in the next 20 years let alone the near future.

[Resolute 14]

How many people in Medicne Hat/Cochrane/Airdie drive to Stamps games as a season ticket holder. If its more than 100 I would be very surprised.

You seriously did not lump Cochrane and Airdrie in with Medicine Hat in this comparison did you?

It is about 4-4.5 hours from Medicine Hat to McMahon. You can get there from Airdrie in about 30 minutes, and about 25 from Cochrane.

Both Airdrie and Cochrane are closer to McMahon than Midnapore, Cranston, MacKenzie Towne, etc.

I would be collossally surprised if the number of people who go to Stamps and Eskimo games from the suburbs are anything less than the low thousands for both teams.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Id put a team in kitchener waterloo or london before another in toronto....and on the wet coast Id put one in Victoria. I think even Saskatoon would support a rivalry with Regina.
My first two expansion teams would be Halifax and Quebec...and serious consideration to kitchener or London.

I would make the cfl a farm system of the NFL with a clause to allow 50% of rosters to be filled by Canadian players.

I just don't think that would work at all. There are only about 350,000 ppl in the greater Victoria area. Even if you include Nanaimo (second biggest city on the island), that is only 70,000 more people, and for them, it is either an hour by car to Vic, or an hour by ferry to Van, so that market would be split. Also, Victoria isn't bursting with the demographic that the CFL wants... broke university students, 80 year olds, and transient squeegy kids are not exactly a prime football market!

Additionally, I have no idea where you would build a stadium.

[GeoffSK]

How about some northern smaller market US cities in Wyoming, Montana, North or South Dakota.

To solve the canadian ratio problem with the expansion last time, have a certain amount on roster spots that must be filled with players that were football trained in the state of the team.

[Flames in 07]

How many people in Medicne Hat/Cochrane/Airdie drive to Stamps games as a season ticket holder. If its more than 100 I would be very surprised.

Same in Edmonton with Leduc, Sherwood Park, St Albert - I would give Edmonton a higher number simply because those towns are alot closter but you get the idea. Me and my dad had season tix to the Esks for about 2 years until we got tired of the 75 minute drive + we had to get their at least an hour before to get parking.

I think the reason you get average 15-20K people in Toronoto in Vancouver is that simple. Middle class Canadians are the bread and butter of the CFL, not people who live in high rise condos. The stadium placement in Vancouver and Toronto are both on the edges of the city which doesnt do much for people who live burbs.

We will agree to disagree but what do you think the reason is for Chicago having two MLB franchises or NY having two. Agreed they are much larger markets but the same principle still applies.

Its just my own personal pipe dream anyways, no normal business person would buy the CFL outright, even if they had the desire, I dont know how the community owned teams would react.

MYK

it's tough to move the lions or argos out of downtown becuase no matter what burb you pick, for each community you are closer to, there is one that you are now further from. Besides most burbs won't have the infrastructure to handle a stadium, and oh ya, the CFL economics do not in any way support the building of a stadium in the first place.

As for two teams per market, there is no way that could ever work. your US model is about 1. Markets with 7Mil plus, a stronger culture to support professional sport, way more disposable income per person, and a successful business model in the MLB and NFL.

I think the future, if it includes growth is to be a NFL2. We'll lose our game but oh well. 5 years after nobody would know the difference. (ie Scoring in the NCAA is higher than the CFL)

[burn_baby_burn]

I don't want to ruffle any feathers of the CFL fans on here. I love football, I eat and sleep it. But I never watch the CFL. Never have. Grew up with it in my backyard and I have never been to a game or watched an entire game on TV. Yet I have NFL Sunday Ticket and try to get to an NFL game every year. If the CFL can't attract football fans in its own back yard? How can it survive?

One of the reasons I don't watch (and I am not poking fun, I am just trying to give an honest opinion) is the rules and size of the field. Who coudn't catch a TD in that end zone. It is the size of a cow pasture. And I really can't stand the three downs. A short run, an incomplete pass, and a punt. That isn't much fun to watch. Not having to have both feet inbounds on a reception also takes the skill and drama out of a side line catch.

Maybe somebody like me would be interested if the CFL had rules more like American football. I know that people like how the CFL is unique and they don't want to copy the Americans. But isn't the CFL game just a copy cat of the American game with a few "odd ball rules" (quoting Lisa Simpson)? I can watch high school football in Montana, but I can't watch CFL football. Sad.

[rubecube]

I don't want to ruffle any feathers of the CFL fans on here. I love football, I eat and sleep it. But I never watch the CFL. Never have. Grew up with it in my backyard and I have never been to a game or watched an entire game on TV. Yet I have NFL Sunday Ticket and try to get to an NFL game every year. If the CFL can't attract football fans in its own back yard? How can it survive?

One of the reasons I don't watch (and I am not poking fun, I am just trying to give an honest opinion) is the rules and size of the field. Who coudn't catch a TD in that end zone. It is the size of a cow pasture. And I really can't stand the three downs. A short run, an incomplete pass, and a punt. That isn't much fun to watch. Not having to have both feet inbounds on a reception also takes the skill and drama out of a side line catch.

Maybe somebody like me would be interested if the CFL had rules more like American football. I know that people like how the CFL is unique and they don't want to copy the Americans. But isn't the CFL game just a copy cat of the American game with a few "odd ball rules" (quoting Lisa Simpson)? I can watch high school football in Montana, but I can't watch CFL football. Sad.

Hit the nail on the head. I'm going to be trying much harder to make it to an Eagles game next year than I am a Stamps game.

[worth]

The field is that size because it dates back to rugby. When Canadians started to play football at McGill, the field was the same size as a rugby field. That is what we know as canadian football. In the US, they didn't have a full size rugby field. they had what we now know as an NFL sized field. That's how the field size happened. It wasn't like teh field size was changed to be different from the American game or anything.

Just a question, but if you've never been to a game or watched it on TV, then isn't that your own fault for not being attracted to the game? I mean, the CFL isn't going to get any fans if someone doesn't take a chance and watch a few games. And then take another chance and buy a ticket to their local team.

I doubt that if you watched a game today that you'd enjoy it. You have already set yourself into a predisposed position based on what you said in your post. So i would bet that 99% if you wantched a game you wouldn't like it. And thats fine, thats for you to decide. But I grew up watching the game and I love it, and may like me did.

And, really the CFL isn't a copycat of the American game. I believe the first forward pass was in Canada. Both US and Canadian football was played for a long while with no forward passes. The differences in rules are how different people evolved the game.

[ken0042]

...... size of the field. Who coudn't catch a TD in that end zone. It is the size of a cow pasture. And I really can't stand the three downs. A short run, an incomplete pass, and a punt. That isn't much fun to watch.

I quote this because I find it funny. Not "ha-ha" but odd funny. You and many other people make the same comment, but say two opposite things in the same breath. To folks like you I ask; which is it? Is it an easy league or is it hard?

Myself, I've switched over to preferring NFL over CFL. But I still enjoy the CFL.

[calgaryrocks]

The field is that size because it dates back to rugby. When Canadians started to play football at McGill, the field was the same size as a rugby field. That is what we know as canadian football. In the US, they didn't have a full size rugby field. they had what we now know as an NFL sized field. That's how the field size happened. It wasn't like teh field size was changed to be different from the American game or anything.

Just a question, but if you've never been to a game or watched it on TV, then isn't that your own fault for not being attracted to the game? I mean, the CFL isn't going to get any fans if someone doesn't take a chance and watch a few games. And then take another chance and buy a ticket to their local team.

I doubt that if you watched a game today that you'd enjoy it. You have already set yourself into a predisposed position based on what you said in your post. So i would bet that 99% if you wantched a game you wouldn't like it. And thats fine, thats for you to decide. But I grew up watching the game and I love it, and may like me did.

And, really the CFL isn't a copycat of the American game. I believe the first forward pass was in Canada. Both US and Canadian football was played for a long while with no forward passes. The differences in rules are how different people evolved the game.
well said worth. if someone grows up watching the nfl because maybe their parents watch it they would get used to the rules and think any other rules are wrong, i grew up watching the cfl and rules that are different such as 4 downs, 40 second timeclocks, fair catch and no touchbacks seem wrong or not as good to me as they are different from the game i watch and detract from the enjoyment of a game IMO. as worth said canadian's started turning rugby into football first, they both came from rugby and some rules were changed differently and the americans have changed the game away from rugby more but maybe football wouldnt exist if the canadians hadnt shown the americans there game way back in the 1800s. u can see more nfl games on tv becuase there are more teams so there is plenty of football to be watched, but we also have the cfl in our own backyard. the cfl isnt as hyped and if you choose not to watch it you arent going to become a fan of it but you are probably pretty set on american rules so theres a good chance you wont like it, but maybe you will, there are alot of americans(alot from baltimore at least) that enjoy the canadian version of football.

[rubecube]

I quote this because I find it funny. Not "ha-ha" but odd funny. You and many other people make the same comment, but say two opposite things in the same breath. To folks like you I ask; which is it? Is it an easy league or is it hard?

Myself, I've switched over to preferring NFL over CFL. But I still enjoy the CFL.

It's both. It should be that easy in the CFL but it's not because of the skill level of the players. That's why you gets guys who burn up the CFL and as soon as they do they head down South.

[calgaryrocks]

I quote this because I find it funny. Not "ha-ha" but odd funny. You and many other people make the same comment, but say two opposite things in the same breath. To folks like you I ask; which is it? Is it an easy league or is it hard?

Myself, I've switched over to preferring NFL over CFL. But I still enjoy the CFL.
for sure, bottom line is that if either league were easy, we would be playing...

[rubecube]

well said worth. if someone grows up watching the nfl because maybe their parents watch it they would get used to the rules and think any other rules are wrong, i grew up watching the cfl and rules that are different such as 4 downs, 40 second timeclocks, fair catch and no touchbacks seem wrong or not as good to me as they are different from the game i watch and detract from the enjoyment of a game IMO. as worth said canadian's started turning rugby into football first, they both came from rugby and some rules were changed differently and the americans have changed the game away from rugby more but maybe football wouldnt exist if the canadians hadnt shown the americans there game way back in the 1800s. u can see more nfl games on tv becuase there are more teams so there is plenty of football to be watched, but we also have the cfl in our own backyard. the cfl isnt as hyped and if you choose not to watch it you arent going to become a fan of it but you are probably pretty set on american rules so theres a good chance you wont like it, but maybe you will, there are alot of americans(alot from baltimore at least) that enjoy the canadian version of football.

Wrong. I grew up watching CFL, my cousin started 12 years for the Stamps and I only got into NFL about 6 years ago. I'm a way bigger NFL fan.

[worth]

rubecube, i'm sure calgaryrocks was talking in general terms, not absolutes.

On the topic of NFL players being superior to CFL players, I bring up this column, which I have posted before on the other topic we had about CFL vs NFL.

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/USACanadian

As the blog states, do you really believe players like Pinball and Gizmo are inferior compared to players in the NFL? They would not be given a second look in the NFL because of their size and the style of game they play. The NFL caters to a different type of player, which is fine, but to say CFL players are inferior to NFL players is a bit of a stertch, and to tell you the truth, an insult to the players who put their whole hearts into playing football no matter where they play.

[calgaryrocks]

well my response was more in general or at least more geared toward what bbb said. you maybe have a bit different background then rubecube. i guess some people like the strategy, hype, big money of the nfl more then the cfl in which it is easier to know and see all the teams and the players are allowed to be more creative on the field with more room to move. the more open field does allow for more offence but it also makes the defending more tough. how many players have ripped up the cfl before going to the nfl, or came from the nfl and ripped up the cfl? the cfl game is different and requires a different style of player as well as less memorization of playbooks and more quick thinking. a qb can have a good memory but not be as quick thinking might be a star in the nfl but not in the cfl. the skillset is different, niether league is significantly harder or easier to play although it is harder to make the nfl as the salaries are higher so mistakes are more scrutinized, qbs need to be taller to see out of the pocket as it is easier to roll out in the cfl to see downfield and there are more politics preventing minorities from being succesfull(this includes coaching)

[rubecube]

rubecube, i'm sure calgaryrocks was talking in general terms, not absolutes.

On the topic of NFL players being superior to CFL players, I bring up this column, which I have posted before on the other topic we had about CFL vs NFL.

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/USACanadian

As the blog states, do you really believe players like Pinball and Gizmo are inferior compared to players in the NFL? They would not be given a second look in the NFL because of their size and the style of game they play. The NFL caters to a different type of player, which is fine, but to say CFL players are inferior to NFL players is a bit of a stertch, and to tell you the truth, an insult to the players who put their whole hearts into playing football no matter where they play.

I would venture to say that Eric Metcalf and Brian Mitchell were as good as any CFL KR. CFL QBs have to think more on their feet? I disagree because it's easier for CFL receivers to get open. The only reason it looks that way is because the O-lines are not exactly top notch in the CFL so the QBs have to scramble more. In the NFL QBs have to account for various complicated blitz packages and D-line shifts, stunts, twists, etc. Are you going to tell me a CFL QB does more adjusting from the beginning of a play than Peyton Manning or Mike Vick?

This article also goes on to say that NFL prototypes don't work in the CFL and gives examples like Tee Martin. Tee Martin is not a good QB in any league, not even NFL Europe. If you want to show me a premiere NFL QB who came up to the CFL and was atrocious then fine. The only really good example of this is not a QB, it's Ricky Williams. And who's to say he wouldn't have come on a bit more without the injuries?

[rubecube]

well my response was more in general or at least more geared toward what bbb said. you maybe have a bit different background then rubecube. i guess some people like the strategy, hype, big money of the nfl more then the cfl

I'm in Canada, the hype doesn't really affect me. It's the product on the field. But I'll give you that the more strategic game appeals to me.

how many players have ripped up the cfl before going to the nfl,

Dozens. Joe Theisman, Warren Moon, Doug Flutie, Jeff Garcia, Dave Dickenson, Matt Dominguez, Ricky Ray, Marc Boerigter, Mike Vanderjagt...

or came from the nfl and ripped up the cfl?

Nobody who would be considered a premiere player, with the exception of Ricky Williams. If you're ripping up the NFL, you don't go to the CFL.
the cfl game is different and requires a different style of player as well as less memorization of playbooks and more quick thinking.

Because the lack of top end talent on the field makes it more unpredictable, just like college ball. The superstars are few and far between unless you're one of the top end teams.

a qb can have a good memory but not be as quick thinking might be a star in the nfl but not in the cfl. the skillset is different, niether league is significantly harder or easier to play although it is harder to make the nfl as the salaries are higher so mistakes are more scrutinized, qbs need to be taller to see out of the pocket as it is easier to roll out in the cfl to see downfield

It's easier to roll out in the CFL because the linebackers and DBs have to drop into coverage more and can't chase down the QB.

and there are more politics preventing minorities from being succesfull(this includes coaching)

This is just ######ed. There are more black players in the NFL than white players.

[rubecube]

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/USACanadian


Had to LOL at the last statement in this article.


If the NHL were to remove the red line, play on olympic sized ice and call penalties for obstruction, you would see personnel changes galore in the NHL. They would need different players. This may already be happening. The NHL may desire players who can be creative and fast rendering the large-bodied grinders less effective. What does everyone want to see? A different game requires different abilities. There are similarities and constants, but we cannot assume that differences relate to quality. Furthermoe, we cannot look at the salaries involved and expect that to be an accurate barometer of quality, it doesn't work.

[soulchoice]

Ricky Williams is a poor example to use. His offensive line in Toronto was horrendous. A running back is only as good as his line in front of him, unless your Barry Sanders(Lions o-line was horrible). Put Ricky on a team with a decent o-line and he would have ripped up the CFL I am sure.

I believe someone on here said that there could be a 50 percent ratio of Canadians on the roster. Wow, that would make the league even worse than it is quality wise. It would eventually turn into a league with is a little better than CIAU ball, which itself is unbearable to watch.

[Cheese]

When I first got into football in the 60s, Canadian ball or CFL was bigger than its American brethern. We used to get some big name players from American colleges, and our pay scale was equal to or better than a lot of the American teams. It wasnt until 1970 that the AFL joined the NFL...I think. Regardless...the USA made the NFL its game at that time...the TV networks picked it up as Baseball self destructed and the owners turned the league into what it is today. Now its all glitz and bling bling...some good games, some real stinkers...same in the CFL. The CFL has great passing action and lighter, faster players...not to mention a roster half the size of the NFLs. The NFL has the beef and players who are drafted just to play special teams.
Two different animals now...I prefer CFL after Labor day...the rest is simply catching up from a lack of exhibition games. The CFL also doesnt promote itself enough, and due to the lack of teams cant put on a good all star game...all detriments. We need another 6 teams at least.

[rubecube]

Now its all glitz and bling bling...some good games, some real stinkers...same in the CFL.

I'm glad you added that. One of the worst arguments in this debate is "CFL games are more exciting because they're a lot closer." Well of course you're going to have more close games when you only put on 4 games every week and there are only 8 teams to spread a lot of talent around. I would venture there are probably at least 4 close games in the NFL every week too.

[burn_baby_burn]

I quote this because I find it funny. Not "ha-ha" but odd funny. You and many other people make the same comment, but say two opposite things in the same breath. To folks like you I ask; which is it? Is it an easy league or is it hard?

Myself, I've switched over to preferring NFL over CFL. But I still enjoy the CFL.

I know, in the NFL you get four downs and in the CFL you get three. I have had CFL fans argue with me that who coudn't get a first down with four downs. Or you only need to average 2.5 yards per down to get a first down in the NFL (that would be pretty gutsy going for it on 4th down everytime). I still prefer the drama of third down.

As for the size of the endzone. It just seems harder to catch a pass in that endzone in the NFL than in the huge endzone in the CFL. How many highlight reel catches do we see every sunday from guys like Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Steve Smith? They jump up grab the ball at the back of the endzone and just get two feet down before they get creamed. Takes alot of skill and practice to pull something like that off. I'm sure there are CFL recievers that can do that. But they don't have to and it detracts from the excitment of the game in my opinion.

[calgaryrocks]

Ricky Williams is a poor example to use. His offensive line in Toronto was horrendous. A running back is only as good as his line in front of him, unless your Barry Sanders(Lions o-line was horrible). Put Ricky on a team with a decent o-line and he would have ripped up the CFL I am sure.

I believe someone on here said that there could be a 50 percent ratio of Canadians on the roster. Wow, that would make the league even worse than it is quality wise. It would eventually turn into a league with is a little better than CIAU ball, which itself is unbearable to watch.
williams prob isnt a good example to use, there could be many reasons why williams didnt do what nfl fans expected him to do including: too high expectations(lack of respect for the players in the cfl), time out of football, poor offensive line(a truly great running back will make holes like pringle or sanders) i dont think you can compare it until we see how ricky does in miami. i really dont believe he would have ripped up the cfl if hed been playing for a team like winnipeg, tho he may have had a chance at the running title had he played for a team like winnipeg, roberts is an awsome running back tho. warren moon is the only player who really ripped up the cfl and he continued that dominance in the nfl. he had a good team around him though and i wonder how he would have done playing for a lesser team then edmonton. afterall football is a team game and you can put a great player on a bad team and he wont look so good or a bad player on a good team and he will look better.

Joe Theisman(ill take your word for it, i wasnt alive back then), Warren Moon see above but ill take that, Doug Flutie(great team to play with in the cfl didnt rip it up but was star and the cfl gave him a chance, Jeff Garcia(i wouldnt call playing for 2 years with a very talented stamps team ripping it up), Dave Dickenson ripping it up? ok he's built for the cfl game, and when given time he is great at scanning for open recievers, albeit injury prone, Matt Dominguez(ripping it up??? hardly), Ricky Ray( im pretty sure you would have to make the playoffs to be ripping it up, but as mentioned before it is a team game), Marc Boerigter(he played 2 years...we'll see how he does this year), Mike Vanderjagt...ok add john ryan( a canadian) to that list i guess. im not sure what that proves though, any player who is a star is going to want to go play for a team in a league they grew up watching and where the media cant stop falling over it self to get more coverage plus the money. opposite works for why no nfl players rip up the nfl then go to the cfl, but any players that have played in both say that they enjoyed the game up here. none of these players made the cfl look bad if nothing else they gave the cfl more publicity and made the game more entertaining. the cfl is a different game then the nfl and some of those players are built more for hte cfl while some like moon are just amazing athletes that are good at both. your right there isnt as much top end talent in the cfl(obviously the so called top end talent trys to go the the nfl, this year was not the most exciting to watch) but yes this does create more unpredictablility like college ball and imo makes it more fun to watch.
It's easier to roll out in the CFL because the linebackers and DBs have to drop into coverage more and can't chase down the QB.
yep and that allows the qb to create more if he is talented(like ricky ray) and cant find a reciever, also makes fore more unpredictability and quick thinking is needed.
yes there prob are more black players in the nfl then white, but maybe not in the qb position. i guess it was more of an issue 10-20 years ago. guys like warren moon never would have gotten a chance in the nfl if they hadnt come up to the cfl and its not becuase of thier talent. not so much today but before monday 2 out of 8 coaches in the cfl were black and how many in the nfl?? you can probably tell me better then i can guess so nevermind i guess.




the cfl does have the import rule which may lower the talent a little, but if they didnt have that rule all those players from the states would come and take more positions. its hard for a country the size of canada which is primarly a hockey country to develop players to keep up with the massive population and passion for football that is in the states. if cfl teams dont have many canadians on them it doesnt feel as canadian and canadian kids wont grow up watching it and playing the game if they have no hope in making the cfl, and right now there are more and more canadian players developed. for example the qbs in the cfl are all american and as a result of canadians not being given a chance canadian kids dont want to play quarterback so we get less and less quality canadian players in that position. whereas canadian positions in the cfl like lineman, kickers and defensive players have more canadians develop even though its harder for those players to make it in the nfl becuase of the different style of game and less star attention that a qb like garcia got when he went to the nfl. canadian players is what makes the cfl great and if the cfl was all american players it wouldnt be as popular.
i agree that the cfl doesnt promote itself as much and would love if it did but the resources and sport culture in our country just dont allow for that, as well as having more teams as you need stadiums to play in and the government is nowhere near as happy as in the states to give money to anything having to do with sports unless its the olympics or commonwealth games.

[burn_baby_burn]

^^^

Black coaches in the NFL:

Oakland
Arizona
Kansas City
Indianapolis
Chicago
Cincinati
Cleveland

[calgaryrocks]

^^^

Black coaches in the NFL:

Oakland
Arizona
Kansas City
Indianapolis
Chicago
Cincinati
Cleveland
did not know that but was wondering. thanks bbb

[krazycanuck]

NFL games are infinately more hyped up. There are simply no 2-hour shows leading up the weeks games or anything like that. I do watch CFL more than the NFL, but I have been to an NFL game and usually watch a game every week.

CFL rules in general are geared to make life easy for the O and hard for the D.

-wider field
-larger endzones
-closer goalposts
-no fair catch-5 yard zone
-1pt for kicking it through the endzone
-faster play clock
-easier to 'jam' reciever in NFL
-unlimited motion in CFL

So, CFL games are generally higher scoring and we see alot more spectacular offensive plays (big runs, passes, returns) than in the NFL. The CFL 3 down rules also encourage more agressive O in that you generally need to complete a pass to gain a first down. I don't believe it would be possible to play 4-down football in the CFL as with the wide field and such Offences would be unstopable. You also couldnt put 3-down ball in the NFL for the opposite reasons.

The 2 games are so very different despite looking on the surface to be the same game. Just ask a US college player to come up and play cornerback, it would take most players a solid year to catch on. Same thing for a CIS slotback trying to make it in the NFL.

I don't think Canadian stadiums will ever be as entertaining to watch a game as their US counterparts because hockey rules here. In the US, football rules and the NFL stadium experience is truly amazing simply due to the fans.

In the end I love most of the CFL rules, and I love the passion in the NFL experience. You find a way to combine the 2...and it would be sexy.

If it came down to watching a game on TV I would choose the CFL over the NFL 3/4 times though

Anyways, back to the original topic. I hate the idea of 2 teams in one city simply due to this...if you're a CFL fan you probably have a team and unless a new team moves into your previously CFL-less city...you're not going to change allegiances. Would anyone here start cheering for a new NHL team if they moved to the city? even if a 2nd Calgary CFL team started playing their games in my backyard, I'd still be a stamps fan. I think thats how most people would feel too.