Jays to offer Delgado new contract

[Jiggy_12]

If they can get Carlos for around 7 mil a season, it would be an absolute steal. I doubt its going to happen, but it would be a huge success if it did.

Click Here (http://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article.jsp;jsessionid=EBLCHOBJFEJM?content=200409 27_173219_5332)

[JiriHrdina]

Well, I would highly doubt he signs at that amount, however there is a chance. It's no secret that Delgado has serious problems with the American government related to the US actions in his home country, which is one of the reasons he enjoys so much playing in Canada. I'm not holding my breath but this could be one of those rare cases where an athlete takes way less than market value to stay with a certain team. Time will tell.

[Pagal4321]

Wow that would be outstanding. To tell you the truth, I think he takes it and finishes his career in Toronto. That would be just outstanding for the Jays. Keep the vetran leader to help alllll the young guys along.

[Jiggy_12]

Follow up article, things are looking good for fans of Delgado staying in Toronto

Click Here (http://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article.jsp?content=20041015_181411_1436)

[flambers]

I don't believe he will sign. I see Carlos signing with a contender.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally posted by flambers@Oct 16 2004, 09:00 AM
I don't believe he will sign. I see Carlos signing with a contender.
Most would consider a healthy Blue Jays team a contender. 86 wins 2 years ago with awful pitching. A healthy Halladay, Wells, Hudson, Catalanatto, and hopefully Delgado provide a great core. If the bullpen is improved, they will contend for at least a WC spot.

[JiriHrdina]

What is Catalanatto's status for next season? Is he signed? I can't recall if the deal he signed last off-season was one year or two?

[Jiggy_12]

Originally posted by JiriHrdina@Oct 16 2004, 12:01 PM
What is Catalanatto's status for next season? Is he signed? I can't recall if the deal he signed last off-season was one year or two?
2 more seasons with the Cat:

Click Here (http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/tor/news/tor_news.jsp?ymd=20040913&content_id=857073&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp)

[JiriHrdina]

Nice. That's good I think. I wish Cat had a little more pop but he is a very smart hitter.

Back on topic, I think there is maybe a 40% chance that Carlos signs with the Jays. I still think the Dodgers are where he'll end up but I think he sincerely would prefer to stay in Canada. Hopefully they can find a way to work it out.

[Flickered Flame]

Go get pitching help instead of paying Delgado that much money...the Jays need pitching if they are to take a step up in the standings.

[Jiggy_12]

Delgado loves Canada, and he does not like the US. His protests of God Bless America are a great example of that. So if it boils down to where he WANTS to play, Toronto will win-out. It depends on how much $ he wants. From what I have observed over the years, Delgado is the complete opposite of a Greedy player. We'll see if my notions are correct are not.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by Flickered Flame@Oct 16 2004, 12:17 PM
Go get pitching help instead of paying Delgado that much money...the Jays need pitching if they are to take a step up in the standings.
I agree the Jays need a little more pitching, but I think they are closer than some people realize. Let's take a look at their starting rotation:

Doc (excellent #1 guy)
Lilly (solid #2)
Batista (Ability to be a good #3)
Bush (Looked good all last season)

The #5 spot could be Towers, could be Chachin.

Regadless I'm comfortable with that rotation

Bullpen though need some work
- No true closer, that's the first priority
- But a trio of good young arms I think: Chulk, Frasor, League

What we need down there is a solid closer, and maybe a good veteran lefty.

My point is though that the pitching staff is much closer to being solid then it was last off-season.

The reality is that reason the Jays sucked this season wasn't much to do with pitching, rather it was a lack of consistent bats, particularly timely hitting.

[Sylvanfan]

Well having Delgado's bat in the lineup improves every hitter in the Jays lineup just with the presence alone. If the Jays could find a proper shortstop, and make a couple of fixes to the rotation and stay healthier they should be as good as the team that won 86 games. Still winning 86 games in that division puts you like 12 games behind the Red Sox and 18 back of the Yankees.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally posted by Sylvanfan@Oct 16 2004, 03:36 PM
Well having Delgado's bat in the lineup improves every hitter in the Jays lineup just with the presence alone. If the Jays could find a proper shortstop, and make a couple of fixes to the rotation and stay healthier they should be as good as the team that won 86 games. Still winning 86 games in that division puts you like 12 games behind the Red Sox and 18 back of the Yankees.
Jays placed Woodward on waivers a couple days ago. They hope that Russ Adams can finally be the SS phenom they have been waiting for. Alex Gonzalez - Nope, Felipe Lopez - Nope, Chris Woodward - Hell no. Will Russ Adams be able to play a key role? I think he has the tools to do so.

[flambers]

Originally posted by Jiggy_12+Oct 16 2004, 08:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jiggy_12 @ Oct 16 2004, 08:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-flambers@Oct 16 2004, 09:00 AM
I don't believe he will sign.# I see Carlos signing with a contender.
Most would consider a healthy Blue Jays team a contender. 86 wins 2 years ago with awful pitching. A healthy Halladay, Wells, Hudson, Catalanatto, and hopefully Delgado provide a great core. If the bullpen is improved, they will contend for at least a WC spot. [/b][/quote]
The Blue Jays are no where near a contender. The Yankees and Red Sox will finish at least 10 games ahead of a healthy Blue Jay Team. Unless JP gets his budget increased the Jays are will be an average team at best. Its going to be a long time before the Jays make the playoffs again in my opinion.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally posted by Jiggy_12+Oct 16 2004, 09:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jiggy_12 @ Oct 16 2004, 09:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Sylvanfan@Oct 16 2004, 03:36 PM
Well having Delgado's bat in the lineup improves every hitter in the Jays lineup just with the presence alone. If the Jays could find a proper shortstop, and make a couple of fixes to the rotation and stay healthier they should be as good as the team that won 86 games. Still winning 86 games in that division puts you like 12 games behind the Red Sox and 18 back of the Yankees.
Jays placed Woodward on waivers a couple days ago. They hope that Russ Adams can finally be the SS phenom they have been waiting for. Alex Gonzalez - Nope, Felipe Lopez - Nope, Chris Woodward - Hell no. Will Russ Adams be able to play a key role? I think he has the tools to do so. [/b][/quote]
Well considering Tejada, and Jeter are in the division, the Jays need to get better at that position. Even Cabrera for the Red Sox is a good defensive shortstop and has good enough pop for that lineup. The Jays need to at least get a guy who can compete with these three defensively and provide some hitting. If they don't find it than they'll be sucking again.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by Sylvanfan+Oct 16 2004, 03:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sylvanfan @ Oct 16 2004, 03:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Jiggy_12@Oct 16 2004, 09:42 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Sylvanfan@Oct 16 2004, 03:36 PM
Well having Delgado's bat in the lineup improves every hitter in the Jays lineup just with the presence alone.# If the Jays could find a proper shortstop, and make a couple of fixes to the rotation and stay healthier they should be as good as the team that won 86 games.# Still winning 86 games in that division puts you like 12 games behind the Red Sox and 18 back of the Yankees.
Jays placed Woodward on waivers a couple days ago. They hope that Russ Adams can finally be the SS phenom they have been waiting for. Alex Gonzalez - Nope, Felipe Lopez - Nope, Chris Woodward - Hell no. Will Russ Adams be able to play a key role? I think he has the tools to do so.
Well considering Tejada, and Jeter are in the division, the Jays need to get better at that position. Even Cabrera for the Red Sox is a good defensive shortstop and has good enough pop for that lineup. The Jays need to at least get a guy who can compete with these three defensively and provide some hitting. If they don't find it than they'll be sucking again. [/b][/quote]
Yes but is that really a priority? If you believe Adams is the long-term solution I think the best course of action is to play him and Gomez next year. Focus your energies on other key areas:
Bullpen
1st/DH if Delgado leaves

[Sylvanfan]

Originally posted by JiriHrdina+Oct 16 2004, 10:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JiriHrdina @ Oct 16 2004, 10:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Sylvanfan@Oct 16 2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Jiggy_12@Oct 16 2004, 09:42 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Sylvanfan@Oct 16 2004, 03:36 PM
Well having Delgado's bat in the lineup improves every hitter in the Jays lineup just with the presence alone.# If the Jays could find a proper shortstop, and make a couple of fixes to the rotation and stay healthier they should be as good as the team that won 86 games.# Still winning 86 games in that division puts you like 12 games behind the Red Sox and 18 back of the Yankees.
Jays placed Woodward on waivers a couple days ago. They hope that Russ Adams can finally be the SS phenom they have been waiting for. Alex Gonzalez - Nope, Felipe Lopez - Nope, Chris Woodward - Hell no. Will Russ Adams be able to play a key role? I think he has the tools to do so.
Well considering Tejada, and Jeter are in the division, the Jays need to get better at that position. Even Cabrera for the Red Sox is a good defensive shortstop and has good enough pop for that lineup. The Jays need to at least get a guy who can compete with these three defensively and provide some hitting. If they don't find it than they'll be sucking again.
Yes but is that really a priority? If you believe Adams is the long-term solution I think the best course of action is to play him and Gomez next year. Focus your energies on other key areas:
Bullpen
1st/DH if Delgado leaves [/b][/quote]
Well that's the question. Is Adams going to be the guy? If they think so, and if him and Gomez platooning at the position makes them better than that's fine. I agree that the priority should be in the bullpen, and either bringing Delgado back or finding a suitable replacement. Still I don't think the Jays can do anything unless they improve at the shortstop position from what they were last year.

[Resolute 14]

I'm not sure why Jeter (who shouldnt even be at short), Tejada and Cabrera in the division means the Jays need a better shortstop. SS isnt exactly a high offense position for 90% of the league.

Looking at improving one position is too narrowminded, IMO. The Jays need to be looking at balance as a whole. If Delgado leaves, we will have a huge power vaccuum to fill in the lineup. That situation isnt likely to be addressed out of the shortstop position.

[Sylvanfan]

Tejada, and Jeter are both great defensive shortstops. In order for a team to make it's pitchers look better they need to be strong up the middle defensively. Good defensive players have the ability to make every pitcher on the staff better. So by adding one player they potentially give 12 pitchers the oppurtunity to improve. The Jays have a good CF in Wells, but they could be better at short and second. It would also benefit them to have a bit better catcher too. In order to compete in the AL East the Jays need to be as good or better than their rivals are defensively.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by Sylvanfan@Oct 16 2004, 06:35 PM
Tejada, and Jeter are both great defensive shortstops. In order for a team to make it's pitchers look better they need to be strong up the middle defensively. Good defensive players have the ability to make every pitcher on the staff better. So by adding one player they potentially give 12 pitchers the oppurtunity to improve. The Jays have a good CF in Wells, but they could be better at short and second. It would also benefit them to have a bit better catcher too. In order to compete in the AL East the Jays need to be as good or better than their rivals are defensively.
Better at second? I completely disagree. Orlando Hudson had a very very good season in the field last year. His hitting was up and down, but he played a very consistent 2nd base and had increased range over previous. I'd say he was in the top 5 in terms of defensive 2nd baseman in the AL right now.

[Resolute 14]

Derek Jeter is *not* a great defensive shortstop. While he had an above average season (for him) this year, Jeter usually has among the lowest fielding percentages in the game, and his range is brutal. He makes so many "spectacular" plays because his lack of range turns a routine play for 95% of the shortstops into the game into difficult plays. A difficult play for - say, Alex Rodriguez - is a base hit into left-center with Jeter.

The Yankees are insane to put the clearly superior shortstop at third base in favor of a guy built up on hype.

[Jiggy_12]

Im not sure of the exact stat, but I believe the Jays as a whole were in the top 3-5 in AL defense. They had a great fielding percentage. So I dont think defense is a great concern at all.

[flambers]

Originally posted by Jiggy_12@Oct 17 2004, 01:11 AM
Im not sure of the exact stat, but I believe the Jays as a whole were in the top 3-5 in AL defense. They had a great fielding percentage. So I dont think defense is a great concern at all.
I agree, Jays are a good defensive club. Pitching and hitting are the problem areas.

[Sylvanfan]

Well defensive % can be an overated stat. Often it indicates that guys make the routine plays, but it doesn't mean your players are making the play that takes a hit away from the other team with 2 outs and stops a rally. Spike Owen once played like 100 consecutive games without an error, yet he was far from a gold glover. He was just technically sound. Either way getting rid of Chris Woodward is a good move for the Jays that guy was a bum.

[Jiggy_12]

Just for interests sake. I checked, and the Jays were 3rd in the AL and 9th in the majors in fielding %.

[Resolute 14]

They were, but like my argument against Jeter, defensive stats can be misleading.

Looking at the fld% stat, Eric Hinske was a better 3B than Alex Rodriguez. Problem is, Hinske has very little range. Arod actually got to more balls, and made more plays, so he was actually the better shortstop.

The left side of our infield is a problem. I'm happy with Hinske if he can avoid errors on the balls he can get to, but a better fielder wouldnt hurt. Adams is a young SS, and you have to expect errors because of that. But, I think we can let him grow into the position.

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by Snakeeye@Oct 17 2004, 05:34 PM
They were, but like my argument against Jeter, defensive stats can be misleading.

Looking at the fld% stat, Eric Hinske was a better 3B than Alex Rodriguez. Problem is, Hinske has very little range. Arod actually got to more balls, and made more plays, so he was actually the better shortstop.

The left side of our infield is a problem. I'm happy with Hinske if he can avoid errors on the balls he can get to, but a better fielder wouldnt hurt. Adams is a young SS, and you have to expect errors because of that. But, I think we can let him grow into the position.
Not to mention Hinske has an absolute Garbage arm over at 3b - he could have made up for that hitting 41 doubles like he did in 2003 or 25 homers in 2002... but he did none of that. Terrible season overall for Hinske.

In reality he should have had the #5 or #6 slot in the batting order locked down (probably 5).

[Sylvanfan]

Well wasn't Hinske originally a first baseman in the A's organization? Maybe the solution is to move him accross the diamond to first base where he doesn't have to worry as much about defence and maybe that can turn his game around. Delgado was a catcher and was moved to the outfield. The defensive part of the game bothered him so much that it affected his hitting. Once they moved him to first he became a much more consistant hitter. The Jays could then look at going out and aquiring a new left side of the infield. I'm not saying they should do this, but it is an option they should consider if they can't resign Delgado.