Knights sign Lehner (5 years, $5 million AAV)

[TheScorpion]

1304460326662844418

[getbak]

That's surprisingly reasonable. I wonder what this does to the UFA goalie market -- and UFAs in general?

That eats up all of Vegas' remaining cap space for next year, without a full roster. Who will they move to clear up space? Fleury? Can anyone afford his full $7 million? Stastny has one year left at $6.5 million.

[The Professor]

They've got to be planning on moving Fleury, no? This shortened off-season is making things very interesting. There's no way a team would announce something like this in the middle of a playoff run, knowing the effect it will have on one of your other players.

[Flash Walken]

That's surprisingly reasonable. I wonder what this does to the UFA goalie market -- and UFAs in general?

That eats up all of Vegas' remaining cap space for next year, without a full roster. Who will they move to clear up space? Fleury? Can anyone afford his full $7 million? Stastny has one year left at $6.5 million.

Might take something significant attached to Fleury but I can't see him back with Vegas next year no matter what. The well has been poisoned in that relationship I think.

Stastny is overpaid but I think they really like him in the organization as a utility player. If Las Vegas loses to Dallas in this series because they can't buy a goal though, I'm not sure what they'd look to do with him. Los Angeles has the cap space and the positional need for a short term piece like that.

[Blaster86]

This is going to bring Markstrom's number down I'd imagine. Lehner is a recent vezina finalist.

[getbak]

Here's the original report:
1304455490877882368


Apparently agreed to in June, before the return to play.

[Textcritic]

This is going to bring Markstrom's number down I'd imagine. Lehner is a recent vezina finalist.
This assumes that Markstrom will be negotiating with Vancouver. I suspect Lehner's number is one that was available only to VGK. Had he went to market I would bet he would get a bigger contract.

[Nelson]

Wow. If that's the number for Lehner, I think that makes the UFA goaltenders more signable. Reasonable term and cap hit. If Markstrom hits the market, I'm sure the Flames will be all over that.

[Blaster86]

This assumes that Markstrom will be negotiating with Vancouver. I suspect Lehner's number is one that was available only to VGK. Had he went to market I would bet he would get a bigger contract.


I am not sure why Markstrom wouldn't be negotiating with them?

[Vinny01]

Great move by Vegas

[AustinL_NHL]

That is a FANTASTIC contract for Vegas.

Holy.

[Textcritic]

I am not sure why Markstrom wouldn't be negotiating with them?Someone from Vancouver media posted yesterday that Markstrom was going to market.

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[GioforPM]

I am not sure why Markstrom wouldn't be negotiating with them?

There have constant rumours that he intends to go away.

[Blaster86]

Someone from Vancouver media posted yesterday that Markstrom was going to market.

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There was a quote from Benning saying he had the right to go to market if the Canucks and Markstrom could not reach a deal. There was also a quote saying they were negotiating a deal and were apart still.

[Erick Estrada]

That is a FANTASTIC contract for Vegas.

Holy.

For a team that some here dismiss a getting gifted a good team they sure continue to make a lot of good personnel decisions year after year.

[Blaster86]

In the case of Lehner, I think after all his struggles and trials and tribulations he just wanted a home. He wanted a team that wanted him (term) and supported him so money wasn't really the biggest issue for him.

[Enoch Root]

Great location, great team, low taxes.

That makes negotiating a little easier.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

The Covid situation has completely reset the market. I'd be very surprised if Markstrom got more than $5 million unless it was a one-year deal.

[Geeoff]

Targeting Fleury might be a good way to get a good goalie AND recover some assets.


To VGK - Rittich
To CGY - Fleury + picks or drop the picks for retention

[Enoch Root]

So the Knights have $11M to sign 4 forwards and 2 defensemen. It will be interesting to see if thy re-sign Stastny.

If so, they HAVE to move Fleury

[activeStick]

I think Lehner and Markstrom are close comparables. Same age essentially and have recently emerged as starting goaltenders. If Markstrom goes to free agency though, he'll definitely get offers of more than 5M as he'd be the best option on the market.

Thinking this comes down to Markstrom deciding between wanting to stay in Vancouver where he's experienced some success for the one season or making probably 1-1.5M more up to the 6.5M mark over likely a 5-6 year deal. He'll get signed regardless but will the additional 6-9M be enough to entice him to move on somewhere else?

I think he re-signs with Vancouver and Canucks end up with more issues figuring out their cap (no Canuck fans, nobody wants Eriksson) and who the hell they play on D next season with no money to add and potentially losing Tanev to boot.

[getbak]

So the Knights have $11M to sign 4 forwards and 2 defensemen. It will be interesting to see if thy re-sign Stastny.

If so, they HAVE to move Fleury
Those are 2021-22's numbers.

If this reported deal is accurate, they have -$60,000 in cap space for next season with 11 forwards, 6 defencemen, and 2 goalies under contract.

[Enoch Root]

Those are 2021-22's numbers.

If this reported deal is accurate, they have -$60,000 in cap space for next season with 11 forwards, 6 defencemen, and 2 goalies under contract.

Yes, thanks. They have moved up the years on CapFriendly.

So they HAVE to move Fleury

[agulati]

Solid contract for Vegas, and Lehner finally gets some stability too.

I would have thought a contract for him would easily be north of 6 million. Doesn’t Nevada have lower taxes too? That might have helped getting him to a lower contract as well.

[sureLoss]

Lehner says nothing has been finalized

1304493458913026049

[MrMike]

I hate Vegas more and more every day.

[dino7c]

For a team that some here dismiss a getting gifted a good team they sure continue to make a lot of good personnel decisions year after year.

This contract if signed has a lot to do with geography...teams would be lining up to offer him more

Less UFA goalies drives Markstrom up if anything

[Snuffleupagus]

Solid contract for Vegas, and Lehner finally gets some stability too.

I would have thought a contract for him would easily be north of 6 million. Doesn’t Nevada have lower taxes too? That might have helped getting him to a lower contract as well.
Yeah it's essentially between $5.4 and $5.7 anywhere else except for Dallas and the two Florida clubs.

NHL needs to equalize this disparity between regions.

[topfiverecords]

This rumour was obviously started by Benning to bring Markstrom's number down.

[Enoch Root]

This rumour was obviously started by Benning to bring Markstrom's number down.

I want to believe that Benning is that smart, but no matter how hard I try, I can't find it in me.

[Blaster86]

I want to believe that Benning is that smart, but no matter how hard I try, I can't find it in me.


Irffan Gaffar is a Canucks beat writer...

[Hockeyguy15]

Working to confirm?

[Enoch Root]

maybe he IS an evil genius!

[Tabaracci_31]

Have there been rumours of any other teams in play for Markstrom?

[tvp2003]

I want to believe that Benning is that smart, but no matter how hard I try, I can't find it in me.

I can believe Benning offered him a 5 x $5M and then was politely reminded about tampering and why that's a no-no.

[Textcritic]

Have there been rumours of any other teams in play for Markstrom?
Other teams are prevented from speaking to any pending UFAs before the market is open, so any rumours at this point would merely be observers speculating about what a team might want to do. I think there is a good bet that Colorado makes a pitch for Markstrom.

[Locke]

Lehner says nothing has been finalized

1304493458913026049

I thought it would be odd for there to be an extension announcement during a series.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Great location, great team, low taxes.

That makes negotiating a little easier.

The taxes part has to be very compelling. Take home pay must be factored heavily by players and agents. I doubt players negotiating in higher tax bracket jurisdictions move down from their numbers because of these types of contracts.

It really isn’t a fair system (salary cap) where advantage is both for players individually and teams getting more bang for buck than other jurisdictions.

This has to be addressed.

[squiggs96]

Working to confirm?


This contract may end up happening, but I find it odd when a twitter account with 7,000 followers, that is a reporter for a different team, announces the signing. The guy didn't say it was a rumour. He said it was a done deal. Those are strong, definitive words. It's then broadcast on a site that has about 15 pixels in the photo displayed to its 37,000 followers. There is no mention of it from McKenzie, Dreger, Friedmann, and/or Vegas people. You have Vegas reporters and Lehner specifically saying it's not signed, nor is it place. This is why I usually don't believe rumours or news unless they are broadcast by people that have earned the trust and respect.

[DoubleK]

I thought it would be odd for there to be an extension announcement during a series.Exactly this. They have enough goalie drama as it is without doing something completely unnecessary in the middle of the playoffs.

[oldschoolcalgary]

It isn't official until Fleury's agent fires off another tweet trolling VGK

[dino7c]

The Covid situation has completely reset the market. I'd be very surprised if Markstrom got more than $5 million unless it was a one-year deal.

Prepare to be surprised

[Zulu29]

Lehner is denying the deal for what it’s worth.

[N-E-B]

Yeah, if I’m Lehner there is no way I’m taking that $5m AAV now. He could get way more on the open market.

[Textcritic]

Yeah, if I’m Lehner there is no way I’m taking that $5m AAV now. He could get way more on the open market.
But clearly—if this is the contract he ends up signing—Lehner is valuing more than just "getting as much money as I can." As noted already in this thread, the stability of a long-term deal and a situation in which he seems very comfortable seems to trump sheer dollar-value in importance.

So, yeah, Robin Lehner is doing things differently than you would, for reasons that he has deemed to be of primary importance.

[Roof-Daddy]

Yeah, if I’m Lehner there is no way I’m taking that $5m AAV now. He could get way more on the open market.

What team out there is better than the VGK and will pay him more than $25 million?

He's be stupid not to take that IMO. He gets a big pay day, gets decent term and also gets to be on a perennial contender.

[Flamenspiel]

Yeah, if I’m Lehner there is no way I’m taking that $5m AAV now. He could get way more on the open market.

Well, right now it’s looking like he cannot even stop a balloon....

[dino7c]

Well, right now it’s looking like he cannot even stop a balloon....

next game is pretty massive for him...if he plays that is

[Robbob]

I think if he does sign for that, it is at a bit of a discount because the Knights are near the cap. Cap friendly shows them with just shy of 5M cap space. Sure they will move that 7M for Fleury, although it will be interesting to see if they have to retain. After that they still need to add around 5 players, so they probably can't afford to give him more.

[ComixZone]

Per Frank Seravalli this deal is now done.

1312399598955233280

[Vinny01]

Great signing by Vegas. Let’s see how they get rid of Fleury

[Crown Royal]

Did Vegas clear come cap, or are they now allowed to exceed the cap?

[The Cobra]

Did Vegas clear come cap, or are they now allowed to exceed the cap?


You cab exceed the cap by 10% during the offseason.


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[Crown Royal]

You cab exceed the cap by 10% during the offseason.


Sent from my iPad using #########es I know, but I do believe the "offseason" doesn't officially start until free agency opens. Which is why I asked, are they allowing the 10% earlier this this year due to the condensed nature of things?

[oldschoolcalgary]

so would anyone here be interested in MAF, if he came in at half price?

[Krovikan]

so would anyone here be interested in MAF, if he came in at half price?Not with his agent

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Crown Royal]

so would anyone here be interested in MAF, if he came in at half price?
Only if he came with the VGK 1st and Whitecloud

[powderjunkie]

so would anyone here be interested in MAF, if he came in at half price?


I’d take him at full price with a little sweetener (and maybe Ryan going back). But that’s mostly just so we couldn’t/wouldn’t sign Hall


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[Cuz]

Yes I know, but I do believe the "offseason" doesn't officially start until free agency opens. Which is why I asked, are they allowing the 10% earlier this this year due to the condensed nature of things?

Since this is an extension, the contract doesn't officially start until the offseason.

[Crown Royal]

Since this is an extension, the contract doesn't officially start until the offseason.Yes, but it still puts them over the cap for next season, so the 10% overage allowance must have kicked in today if the deal is official. I think this is what they call the tagging rule

[Geeoff]

Great signing by Vegas. Let’s see how they get rid of Fleury
To Flames: Fleury + 2nd
To Vegas: Big Save Dave

[TheScorpion]

To Flames: Fleury + 2nd
To Vegas: Big Save Dave

I would want a first to take on $5.5 million in additional salary. Vegas doesn't have a second this year.

[ComixZone]

I would want a first to take on $5.5 million in additional salary. Vegas doesn't have a second this year.

1 year cap-dump of $6M last year was a 1st round pick.
1 year cap-dump of $5.75M this year cost a 2nd round pick.
2 years of $7M? That’s a 1st rounder at the minimum

[Flames1217]

This signing is great news for us.

We should be able to get Markstrom at under 6.

[Crown Royal]

To Flames: Fleury + 2nd
To Vegas: Big Save Dave
https://media.tenor.com/images/6d259406b5c5c818efccf4b992ab46d9/tenor.gif

[AustinL_NHL]

Fairly confident in saying Vegas made the best signing of the off-season before it truly even started

[agulati]

Such a solid deal for the golden knights, and Lehner, finally, gets some term.

[Textcritic]

Fairly confident in saying Vegas made the best signing of the off-season before it truly even started
That is probably true, but I am very interested now in seeing how they make this work. VGK is already over the cap with roster spots left to fill. Obviously, they will be moving MAF, but I don't see how that will not also cost them significant assets.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

1 year cap-dump of $6M last year was a 1st round pick.
1 year cap-dump of $5.75M this year cost a 2nd round pick.
2 years of $7M? That’s a 1st rounder at the minimum
It's not that simple, either, because for a lot of teams in the current environment who won't be cap teams, the actual salary is far more important than the cap hit. A player with a $5Mx2 AAV who's only owed $4M in total actual dollars, for example, is going to cost a lot less to get rid of than someone who's owed the dollars reflected in the cap hit in the form of a bonus.

[powderjunkie]

1 year cap-dump of $6M last year was a 1st round pick.
1 year cap-dump of $5.75M this year cost a 2nd round pick.
2 years of $7M? That’s a 1st rounder at the minimum


Marleau was a pure cap dump.

Staal was mostly cap dump, but he has a sliver of value to DET as a veteran presence

MAF still plays as well as any 4-5M goalie, so the cap dump is closer to 2M x 2 yrs


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[1_Flames_Fan]

Not only is he a top 3 goalie but he takes a more than fair contract after betting on himself and winning 2 years in a row. This is the guy I really wanted for the Flames. Oh well, should set a value for the other goalies going forward. Maybe that will help the Flames.

Sent from my IN2025 using Tapatalk

[dino7c]

Vegas is a top 3 UFA destination...maybe #1 right now

Their deals do not set the market

[rvd123]

Bidding war for Markstrom, he will get more $$$$.

[Blaster86]

Vegas is a top 3 UFA destination...maybe #1 right now

Their deals do not set the market


He says, praying that it's true and they still have a shot at any goalie other than Cam Talbot.

Markstrom will get more if he's willing to sacrifice an NTC/NMC, otherwise he'll get close to this amount now.

[1qqaaz]

I think Markstrom deserves a lot of money, but he doesn't deserve term. Not enough of a track record. Also kind of old.

Lehner deserved a high AAV and long term. He clearly took a discount and has been elite for several years now.

But if the Flames are going to compete with Vegas, a division rival, they can't just blatantly offer larger contracts to worse players.
The Flames can't keep trading picks for rentals. At least when Vegas does this, they almost always end up extending the players. In this case, Vegas extended the player to a steal of a deal.

The Flames are better off just hoarding picks, drafting and developing well, signing the young RFAs to good deals, and then trading away older players rather than losing them as UFAs.
The Flames can't really do Vegas's strategy of acquiring and extending rentals. Lehner signs a hometown discount. Gustaffson demands market price. That's a huge difference (albeit a small sample size). Last year the Flames traded for UFA Fantenberg and lost him for nothing. Meanwhile, Vegas acquired and extended Stone (and he's probably overpaid due to the flat cap, but no one could have known).

[Textcritic]

...But if the Flames are going to compete with Vegas, a division rival, they can't just blatantly offer larger contracts to worse players...
I think the word you are searching for is "flagrantly".


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[getbak]

I think the word you are searching for is "flagrantly".

What are you, some kind of text crit... Oh right. Carry on.

[Blaster86]

What are you, some kind of text crit... Oh right. Carry on.


No, don't take it like that from him! Fight the power! Fight the power!

[dino7c]

He says, praying that it's true and they still have a shot at any goalie other than Cam Talbot.

Markstrom will get more if he's willing to sacrifice an NTC/NMC, otherwise he'll get close to this amount now.

Markstrom can get more $$$ and the NMC...just depends if he wants to move.

Lehner has good numbers on good defensive teams...his Chicago numbers aren't too hot.

Markstrom's numbers are all playing for that 60 shot against a night joke to the west.

[Blaster86]

Markstrom can get more $$$ and the NMC...just depends if he wants to move.


I love Markstrom. Think he's morphed into an absolutely stud goalie. He's also going to be 30+ on this contract and has had some injury issues in back to back seasons.

If a team wants to offer big money and an NMC then more power too them. I'll be sad to see him go, but when Markstrom was brought in he was always a stop gap for Demko. Hey played well beyond what was expected and morphed beyond that "Stop gap" tag into a true #1. But if Demko is ready now, then we save money at a time we need to save it.

Still expect him to be an Av if he isn't a Canuck.

[1qqaaz]

Markstrom can get more $$$ and the NMC...just depends if he wants to move.

Lehner has good numbers on good defensive teams...his Chicago numbers aren't too hot.

Markstrom's numbers are all playing for that 60 shot against a night joke to the west.

Lehner had 92% on a 26th place Buffalo team. He had 92.4% on a 23rd place Buffalo team.
Markstrom has never had 92% in a season where he played 10 or more games. Lehner, though younger, has done this 4 times. He's even had a monster 93% season.
Markstrom's "not so hot" Chicago numbers match Markstrom's career high.

The two just aren't comparable. Really, the only ones who compare to Lehner are Vasilevsky, Gibson, Rask, Bishop, and Hellebuyck.
Lehner's career save percentage is third, only behind Rask and Bishop, in terms of goalies with 300 games played.
Markstrom's career save percentage is 33rd among active goalies.

Save percentage is one of the best "simple" stats in hockey. It's especially meaningful when the player has been on a number of teams, some good, some bad.

[topfiverecords]

I think the word you are searching for is "flagrantly".


Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

That's blatantly obvious.

[Blaster86]

Lehner had 92% on a 26th place Buffalo team. He had 92.4% on a 23rd place Buffalo team.
Markstrom has never had 92% in a season where he played 10 or more games. Lehner, though younger, has done this 4 times. He's even had a monster 93% season.
Markstrom's "not so hot" Chicago numbers match Markstrom's career high.

The two just aren't comparable. Really, the only ones who compare to Lehner are Vasilevsky, Gibson, Rask, Bishop, and Hellebuyck.
Lehner's career save percentage is third, only behind Rask and Bishop, in terms of goalies with 300 games played.
Markstrom's career save percentage is 33rd among active goalies.

Save percentage is one of the best "simple" stats in hockey. It's especially meaningful when the player has been on a number of teams, some good, some bad.




How do the numbers compare when looking at the previous two seasons?

[Crown Royal]

I really think that the combination of the flat cap and Bobrovsky's 10m deal being such a massive failure so far is going to deter teams from giving too much to any goalie. I think it is going to be a few years before we see another goaltender sign for more than $6m

[ComixZone]

I really think that the combination of the flat cap and Bobrovsky's 10m deal being such a massive failure so far is going to deter teams from giving too much to any goalie. I think it is going to be a few years before we see another goaltender sign for more than $6m

Yeah, agreed.

I think Markstrom will set that bar at $6M, and no one will cross it until things begin to normalize.

...or until Carter Hart's ELC expires...

[dino7c]

I love Markstrom. Think he's morphed into an absolutely stud goalie. He's also going to be 30+ on this contract and has had some injury issues in back to back seasons.

If a team wants to offer big money and an NMC then more power too them. I'll be sad to see him go, but when Markstrom was brought in he was always a stop gap for Demko. Hey played well beyond what was expected and morphed beyond that "Stop gap" tag into a true #1. But if Demko is ready now, then we save money at a time we need to save it.

Still expect him to be an Av if he isn't a Canuck.

lol imagine getting hurt playing goal in Vancouver!

[dino7c]

Lehner had 92% on a 26th place Buffalo team. He had 92.4% on a 23rd place Buffalo team.
Markstrom has never had 92% in a season where he played 10 or more games. Lehner, though younger, has done this 4 times. He's even had a monster 93% season.
Markstrom's "not so hot" Chicago numbers match Markstrom's career high.

The two just aren't comparable. Really, the only ones who compare to Lehner are Vasilevsky, Gibson, Rask, Bishop, and Hellebuyck.
Lehner's career save percentage is third, only behind Rask and Bishop, in terms of goalies with 300 games played.
Markstrom's career save percentage is 33rd among active goalies.

Save percentage is one of the best "simple" stats in hockey. It's especially meaningful when the player has been on a number of teams, some good, some bad.

Markstrom has never been on a good defensive team...he is the better goalie IMO. Hockey writers thought he was the better goalie past season too


I would take either guy but only one is potentially available...Markstrom is the best UFA goalie should he hit the market. Teams would be lining up to give him 6 despite Lehner's contract

[Crown Royal]

Yeah, agreed.

I think Markstrom will set that bar at $6M, and no one will cross it until things begin to normalize.

...or until Carter Hart's ELC expires...
Fair point on Hart, if anyone surpasses 6 it will be him, but coming off an ELC, 3x5m would probably be pretty fair still IMO

[Sandman]

I think that despite the flat cap, some dumb GM's will get into a bidding war, and he will end up getting silly money. The GMs who are most desperate always give out the stupid contracts. I could see this happening with several of the top UFAs.