Patrick Eaves traded to Anaheim for Second Round Pick

[polak]

https://www.nhl.com/stars/news/dallas-stars-acquire-conditional-second-round-selection-in-2017-nhl-draft-from-anaheim-in-exchange-for-right-wing-patrick-eaves/c-287095724

Conditional second round pick/could be a 1st if they make the conference finals.

Would've been a perfect fit for the Flames.......

[Badgers Nose]

Bummer. That's good for an already good team.

[tkflames]

Could be a 1st subject to the Russell rule.

[bigrangy]

https://www.nhl.com/stars/news/dallas-stars-acquire-conditional-second-round-selection-in-2017-nhl-draft-from-anaheim-in-exchange-for-right-wing-patrick-eaves/c-287095724

Conditional second round pick for a player who has already scored 21 goals?

Umm....... We couldn't throw them a guaranteed second round pick?

It's a conditional first, really. Same conditions as the Russell pick from last year.

If Anaheim goes to the conference finals and Eaves plays 50% of games it's Ana's first rounder.

[jschick88]

Chris Johnston @reporterchris (https://twitter.com/reporterchris?lang=en)
Here are the conditions on the draft pick Dallas gets back from Anaheim in Patrick Eaves deal. Could become a first-rounder:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5dcBtRUwAACm_Z.jpg:large

[Incogneto]

COndition is that its a 1st if the Ducks go to the Conf Final and Eaves plays 50% of the games. AKA the Russell Condition.

[3thirty]

nm beaten

[polak]

It's a conditional first, really. Same conditions as the Russell pick from last year.

If Anaheim goes to the conference finals and Eaves plays 50% of games it's Ana's first rounder.

I'd jump all over that if it means we made the conference finals....

[keenan87]

As much as Eaves would have been a good edition, I still think Treliving is working on another fish (Kane or Nyquist maybe)

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

He has 21 goals this year, but seems to be mostly a power play guy.

[Gaskal]

https://www.nhl.com/stars/news/dallas-stars-acquire-conditional-second-round-selection-in-2017-nhl-draft-from-anaheim-in-exchange-for-right-wing-patrick-eaves/c-287095724

Conditional second round pick for a player who has already scored 21 goals?

Umm....... We couldn't throw them a guaranteed second round pick?
A guaranteed 2nd for a rental?

We are not a contender who can spend those kind of assets to gear up for a playoff push at this time. I think the 3rd+5th for Stone is about the highest that Treliving is willing to go - and a #4 dman was a very pressing need.

Eaves is definitely a nice name, but not someone I would be willing to spend a 2nd on.

[keenan87]

I'd jump all over that if it means we made the conference finals....

Maybe we did offer that but Dallas decided to take Anaheim's offer because they think the Ducks have a better chance.

[dino7c]

21 goals playing with some pretty great players

[polak]

As much as Eaves would have been a good edition, I still think Treliving is working on another fish (Kane or Nyquist maybe)

Yeah I can't imagine the price was too high for Treliving.

Hopefully that means they're eyeing a bigger fish.

[Flash Walken]

Would not pay a 2nd for Eaves on this flames team.

Good non-trade if the Flames were involved.

[cannon7]

This season is an anomaly in Eaves' career, and he certainly doesn't play with the "edge" the Flames are supposedly looking for.

[dino7c]

Dallas probably wouldn't expect the Flames to knock out the Wild and then the Hawks

had we made the same offer

[keenan87]

Would not pay a 2nd for Eaves on this flames team.

Good non-trade if the Flames were involved.


I am curious as to learn why not? A team in the playoff race.. why would you not pay a 2nd rounder for a 21 goal scorer.

[dino7c]

I am curious as to learn why not? A team in the playoff race.. why would you not pay a 2nd rounder for a 21 goal scorer.

because the Flames aren't really a cup contender

[Phaneufenstein]

Seems like overpayment to me especially if this becomes a 1st rounder.

This is almost Gaustad return territory.

[Beninho]

Ya I'm fine with keeping our second, didn't want Eaves at all. Eaves just screams Ducks, hopefully he helps them stomp the Kings.

[sureLoss]

Corey Masisak @cmasisak22

7/2016: Patrick Eaves = 99 goals in 545 NHL games, been waived twice, gets cheap 1-year deal. 2/2017: Traded for possibly a 1st round pick

[dino7c]

Corey Masisak @cmasisak22

7/2016: Patrick Eaves = 99 goals in 545 NHL games, been waived twice, gets cheap 1-year deal. 2/2017: Traded for possibly a 1st round pick

that pretty much sums it all up...and I would probably have a few goals on the Dallas PP

[Flash Walken]

I am curious as to learn why not? A team in the playoff race.. why would you not pay a 2nd rounder for a 21 goal scorer.

Because....
Corey Masisak @cmasisak22

7/2016: Patrick Eaves = 99 goals in 545 NHL games, been waived twice, gets cheap 1-year deal. 2/2017: Traded for possibly a 1st round pick

And the Flames can't afford to spend 2nd rounders on guys like that, they need to save their 2nd rounders for when they include them with an even more valuable piece to get an ultra valuable piece in return.

The more you deal 2nds for Eaves, the less Dougie Hamilton deals you can make, and the Flames desperately need more Dougie Hamilton level returns if they want to compete while Monahan is still scoring goals.

[sureLoss]

There was definitely a bidding war here... TSN reported last night 10-12 teams were in on Eaves

[keenan87]

because the Flames aren't really a cup contender

I don't know, I like to think if you make the playoffs, there are a few favourites but anything can happen. As for the Flames, why not go for it all this year? I mean you don't have to give up your entire future, but a second round pick is not that big of a deal.

Especially since the last time the Flames drafted an impactful 2nd rounder (which also has an *) was in 2000. Unless you want to count Markus Granlund...

[Beninho]

Because....


And the Flames can't afford to spend 2nd rounders on guys like that, they need to save their 2nd rounders for when they include them with an even more valuable piece to get an ultra valuable piece in return.

The more you deal 2nds for Eaves, the less Dougie Hamilton deals you can make, and the Flames desperately need more Dougie Hamilton level returns if they want to compete while Monahan is still scoring goals.

Agreed, if the 2nd round pick isn't helping bring another young player back or a good player who has term I'm not at all interested. Eaves has all the signs that he is a one year wonder, no way do I invest in that.

[keenan87]

Because....


And the Flames can't afford to spend 2nd rounders on guys like that, they need to save their 2nd rounders for when they include them with an even more valuable piece to get an ultra valuable piece in return.

The more you deal 2nds for Eaves, the less Dougie Hamilton deals you can make, and the Flames desperately need more Dougie Hamilton level returns if they want to compete while Monahan is still scoring goals.

That is a valid point and I will agree to that. The second round pick can be used as a chip for future deals but personally, I have very little faith that the 2nd round pick will become anything good if they simply use it for the draft.

[dino7c]

are we really gonna do this on every trade, signing, and every coach hire?

Remember how shrewd the Habs were and how dumb the Flames were

hows that working out?

[polak]

Okay maybe Eaves was the wrong guy (I just knew he was scoring at a high level this year) but our 2nd should totally be in play.

[bigrangy]

I don't know, I like to think if you make the playoffs, there are a few favourites but anything can happen. As for the Flames, why not go for it all this year? I mean you don't have to give up your entire future, but a second round pick is not that big of a deal.

Especially since the last time the Flames drafted an impactful 2nd rounder (which also has an *) was in 2000. Unless you want to count Markus Granlund...

That's because they blew them all on marginal rentals like Eaves.

You can't succeed in this league without picks.

I'm optimistic about how far the Flames can go this year. They match up well against everyone but San Jose imo. But it's not time to buy with good assets yet. It's still building time.

[dino7c]

Okay maybe Eaves was the wrong guy (I just knew he was scoring at a high level this year) but our 2nd should totally be in play.

not for a rental

[tkflames]

Corey Masisak @cmasisak22

7/2016: Patrick Eaves = 99 goals in 545 NHL games, been waived twice, gets cheap 1-year deal. 2/2017: Traded for possibly a 1st round pick


You called it in the iggy thread. Must have been quite the market for him to warrant an early deal with a conditional 1st.

[keenan87]

are we really gonna do this on every trade, signing, and every coach hire?

Remember how shrewd the Habs were and how dumb the Flames were

hows that working out?

Are you talking about Julien? The guy who has like 3 games under his belt with the Habs.. If that is who you are talking about, it's a very small sample size.

[Robbob]

That is a valid point and I will agree to that. The second round pick can be used as a chip for future deals but personally, I have very little faith that the 2nd round pick will become anything good if they simply use it for the draft.

So you think none of Parsons, Dube, Andersson, or Kylington will amount to anything?

[Beninho]

That is a valid point and I will agree to that. The second round pick can be used as a chip for future deals but personally, I have very little faith that the 2nd round pick will become anything good if they simply use it for the draft.

You don't give up assets like a 2nd rounder when you are a young playoff bubble team. You conserve those assets, Ducks are in win now mode while they have some decent prospects in their farm which allows them to take a gamble on Eaves and possibly losing their first. Great deal for Dallas, ok deal for Anaheim but if they crash out in the conference finals it's a terrible deal. A second round pick in a draft where there is not much separating late first rounders and 3-4th rounders is valuable. Scout well and that pick could easily turn out to be a solid player, every year it happens. Flames are in no place to dish out first and seconds for veteran players who not will be in our future plans.

[N-E-B]

The list of available forwards shrinks. Burrows on the Flames slightly more likely.



I kid.

[Beninho]

The list of available forwards shrinks. Burrows on the Flames slightly more likely.



I kid.

Stop, I don't want to get sick. And we all should be happy Tre isn't dumb enough to give away a second for Eaves

[Trojan97]

Man, what a great trade for Dallas. To sign Eaves to a 1-yr deal for next to nothing in the summer and then turn him into a potential first rounder eight months later is a fantastic job by Nill.

Seems like a win-win for both sides.

[keenan87]

So you think none of Parsons, Dube, Andersson, or Kylington will amount to anything?

Honestly, I don't know. Maybe they will or maybe they won't. However, this same type of hype I have seen before though... Irving, Brossoit, Gillies, Wotherspoon was supposed to replace Regehr.

I hope they amount to something but I have learned not to put much stock into how a prospect is doing in the NHL. Fans love to overhype their own prospects so I would rather wait and see how these players do in the NHL. Too many disappointments over the past few years (remember when Poirier was going to be something "special")

[Flash Walken]

That is a valid point and I will agree to that. The second round pick can be used as a chip for future deals but personally, I have very little faith that the 2nd round pick will become anything good if they simply use it for the draft.

I agree with you.

As Flames fans we've been dutifully trained to not expect a 2nd round draft pick to ever impact the main roster.

The only 2nd round picks that have played more than 200 games in the last 20 years have been Blair Betts, Brandon Prust and Kurtis Foster.

[keenan87]

You don't give up assets like a 2nd rounder when you are a young playoff bubble team. You conserve those assets, Ducks are in win now mode while they have some decent prospects in their farm which allows them to take a gamble on Eaves and possibly losing their first. Great deal for Dallas, ok deal for Anaheim but if they crash out in the conference finals it's a terrible deal. A second round pick in a draft where there is not much separating late first rounders and 3-4th rounders is valuable. Scout well and that pick could easily turn out to be a solid player, every year it happens. Flames are in no place to dish out first and seconds for veteran players who not will be in our future plans.

okayyy.... so when do we go from a "young" playoff bubble team to an "underachieving" playoff bubble team ... Not arguing but rather asking for your opinion ... at what point should this team be ready to compete? next year? 2018?

[sureLoss]

This does beg the question, what can the Flames get for Versteeg? Not saying I would necessarily move him but if Eaves can return this...

[Textcritic]

That's because they blew them all on marginal rentals like Eaves.

You can't succeed in this league without picks.

I'm optimistic about how far the Flames can go this year. They match up well against everyone but San Jose imo. But it's not time to buy with good assets yet. It's still building time.
The Flames are 1-1 in SJ this season and 1-0 at home against the Sharks. They were 2-2-1 in their Season Series with SJ last year.

Calgary matches up just fine with the Sharks.

[dino7c]

Are you talking about Julien? The guy who has like 3 games under his belt with the Habs.. If that is who you are talking about, it's a very small sample size.

It was really dumb to be mad at the Flames because the Habs signed Julien

comparable to now being mad that the flames didn't give up a conditional 1st for Eaves

So many factors, for one a conditional from Anaheim is far more valuable

[DynamRyan]

No wrong thread

[The Fonz]

https://www.nhl.com/stars/news/dallas-stars-acquire-conditional-second-round-selection-in-2017-nhl-draft-from-anaheim-in-exchange-for-right-wing-patrick-eaves/c-287095724

Conditional second round pick/could be a 1st if they make the conference finals.

Would've been a perfect fit for the Flames.......

I'd have lost my #### if Treliving made this trade.

[Textcritic]

This does beg the question, what can the Flames get for Versteeg? Not saying I would necessarily move him but if Eaves can return this...

Versteeg's contribution to a playoff berth and a potential run far outstrips what he might garner for the Flames in a trade.

[dino7c]

Flames, IF they make it likely get the Wild in the first round...should they pull off the upset then would likely get the Hawks in round two

good luck

its called reality

[dammage79]

Kind of shows how weak the draft is. Conditional 1st for eaves? That's a lot.

[keenan87]

It was really dumb to be mad at the Flames because the Habs signed Julien

comparable to now being mad that the flames didn't give up a conditional 1st for Eaves

So many factors, for one a conditional from Anaheim is far more valuable

Yeah, but I hope you are not talking about me being mad.

Flash said "Would not pay a 2nd for Eaves on this flames team." and that is what I responded to. I even mentioned above that if I am the Stars, I would rather take the Ducks offer than the Flames.

However, I will say that if this deal between the Stars-Flames, I wouldn't be opposed to it.

[Textcritic]

Flames, IF they make it likely get the Wild in the first round...should they pull off the upset then would likely get the Hawks in round two

good luck

its called reality
They have matched up quite well against both those teams this season. It is not some massive mis-match like you suggest.

[keenan87]

Flames, IF they make it likely get the Wild in the first round...should they pull off the upset then would likely get the Hawks in round two

good luck

its called reality

It's also called playoffs which is a whole new beast. I know the odds would be in favour of the Hawks but the Flames would also have lots of momentum after beating the top team in the west. Or do you suggest they just surrender at that point and not play any games?

It's playoffs man. Time and Time again you see upsets and cinderalla stories.

[dino7c]

It's also called playoffs which is a whole new beast. I know the odds would be in favour of the Hawks but the Flames would also have lots of momentum after beating the top team in the west. Or do you suggest they just surrender at that point and not play any games?

It's playoffs man. Time and Time again you see upsets and cinderalla stories.

2 times past the first round in almost 30 years...one time past the 2nd round

this is not the year to mortgage the future

[ComixZone]

Would've been a perfect fit for the Flames.......

Not at that cost. It's awesome because this happens right before the Ducks play the Kings :)

[keenan87]

2 times past the first round in almost 30 years...one time past the 2nd round

this is not the year to mortgage the future

So, when do you think would be a good time to mortgage the future? I understand we are not a contender right now. However, when in your opinion, should the Flames start taking risks?

[dino7c]

So, when do you think would be a good time to mortgage the future? I understand we are not a contender right now. However, when in your opinion, should the Flames start taking risks?

when they aren't hanging onto a wildcard spot by the thread...hopefully next season or the year after

[Flash Walken]

Versteeg's contribution to a playoff berth and a potential run far outstrips what he might garner for the Flames in a trade.

Uh, what?

Versteeg is found money. If you can get a 2nd round pick for him I have a really hard time with why you'd say no?

Trade Versteeg, call up Hathaway, play Ferland in the top 6, pick 3 times in first 6 picks or trade all 3 of those picks for a marquee young player to contend faster.

I get it, I get it, you don't trade everyone, but players you do trade are 30 year old forwards on bargain contracts who were looking at playing in Europe until a week before the season started.

[polak]

Flames, IF they make it likely get the Wild in the first round...should they pull off the upset then would likely get the Hawks in round two

good luck

its called reality

The Flames had no problem with the Wild and have won all 3 games against so far. They're 1-1 vs. the Hawks so far.

Flames match up decently with everyone in the West besides the Oilers who have owned them this year.

[ComixZone]

This does beg the question, what can the Flames get for Versteeg? Not saying I would necessarily move him but if Eaves can return this...

I'd think a 2nd, or a 3rd/conditional 2nd based on playoff success. Versteeg is dirt cheap just like Eaves, so I think Versteeg has more value than someone like Iggy who carries that big hit.

Step 1: Trade Wideman (3rd with retained salary)
Step 2: Trade Versteeg (3rd)
Step 3: Acquire Iginla (late round pick + Joki or Wotherspoon?)
= net assets and net improvement today.

[dino7c]

The Flames had no problem with the Wild and have won all 3 games against so far. They're 1-1 vs. the Hawks so far.

Flames match up decently with everyone in the West besides the Oilers who have owned them this year.

Winning a playoff series is a whole different ball game...


any sane person would rather play the Oilers despite the season series

[Textcritic]

2 times past the first round in almost 30 years...one time past the 2nd round

this is not the year to mortgage the future

I agree that the Flames are not in a position to make a big push now, but the expense of a second and a conditional third hardly constitutes "mortgaging the future." The future of this team is already in the system.

[polak]

Winning a playoff series is a whole different ball game...


any sane person would rather play the Oilers despite the season series

No it's not. It's the same rules, same players, same coaches.

I'd rather face a team who we swept in the season series vs a team that swept us.

[dino7c]

I agree that the Flames are not in a position to make a big push now, but the expense of a second and a conditional third hardly constitutes "mortgaging the future." The future of this team is already in the system.

I am talking about not giving up a conditional 1st for an average at best player

[keenan87]

I'd think a 2nd, or a 3rd/conditional 2nd based on playoff success. Versteeg is dirt cheap just like Eaves, so I think Versteeg has more value than someone like Iggy who carries that big hit.

I kind of like Versteeg and think we should sign him to a cheap 2-3 year contract and play him in the Top 9. Has won a few cups and seems like a calm presence on the team who will be beneficial in the playoffs.


However, I would trade Stajan and Bouma this deadline and hope for Brouwer to get picked up by Vegas. Who knows though, if we make the playoffs, maybe Brouwer turns into a beast in the playoffs.

[dammage79]

Versteeg is already where he should be. Helping the team make the playoffs. I don't think the value of trading him is greater than his usefulness to the flames for the final push.

[Textcritic]

Winning a playoff series is a whole different ball game...


any sane person would rather play the Oilers despite the season series

Sure, but the point is that the margin separating all of these teams is razor thin. If the Flames make the playoffs I don't think anyone should be surprised that they will be highly competitive.

[ComixZone]

I kind of like Versteeg and think we should sign him to a cheap 2-3 year contract and play him in the Top 9. Has won a few cups and seems like a calm presence on the team who will be beneficial in the playoffs.


However, I would trade Stajan and Bouma this deadline and hope for Brouwer to get picked up by Vegas. Who knows though, if we make the playoffs, maybe Brouwer turns into a beast in the playoffs.

I've liked Versteeg at times, so definitely not pushing him out. Don't really want to see him re-signed though.

[Beninho]

okayyy.... so when do we go from a "young" playoff bubble team to an "underachieving" playoff bubble team ... Not arguing but rather asking for your opinion ... at what point should this team be ready to compete? next year? 2018?

Well I think by 2018 we should be a constant playoff team. Free agent signings will be crucial with all the money coming off the books. Development of Bennett and his future is also key to the Flames taking the next step. The Flmes aren't in win now mode and it often takes 5-6 years of rebuilding before a team can even start thinking about winning it all. The Flames trajectory seems to be going in the right place and even tho there have been some bumps the team is still on the right course. Unless it's a player like a Duchene or Landy or Kane that second is not on the table for a veteran who won't be playing on this team.

[Textcritic]

I am talking about not giving up a conditional 1st for an average at best player

On that we agree, and that wouldn't change if the Flames were a bona fide Cup contender this year.

My point is to counter this notion that the Flames are an easy out in the first round.

[PepsiFree]

I get the "this isn't the year to mortgage the future" sentiment, but being realistic, this might be exactly the year.

Weak draft, Flames are close, and we have a nice group of guys who look like they're 1-2 years from making the jump to fill out our bottom group (Janko, Andersson, Kylington, etc).

Now IS the time to start trading in those future chips to improve your team right now. We've got Monahan, Gaudreau, Hamilton, Brodie, Bennett, and Tkachuk. Gio isn't getting younger, you've got solid additional guys like Backlund, Frolik, Ferland, Stone, and good roleplayer/fill-ins like Versteeg, Engelland, Stajan...

I have to ask, if not now... what exactly are we waiting for? It should be noted that if the Flames just wait and wait until everything lines up just right, then they're going to miss the window and suffer through another rebuild.

IMO - now is the time to start buying, and continue that through next season and beyond.

[polak]

I get the "this isn't the year to mortgage the future" sentiment, but being realistic, this might be exactly the year.

Weak draft, Flames are close, and we have a nice group of guys who look like they're 1-2 years from making the jump to fill out our bottom group (Janko, Andersson, Kylington, etc).

Now IS the time to start trading in those future chips to improve your team right now. We've got Monahan, Gaudreau, Hamilton, Brodie, Bennett, and Tkachuk. Gio isn't getting younger, you've got solid additional guys like Backlund, Frolik, Ferland, Stone, and good roleplayer/fill-ins like Versteeg, Engelland, Stajan...

I have to ask, if not now... what exactly are we waiting for? It should be noted that if the Flames just wait and wait until everything lines up just right, then they're going to miss the window and suffer through another rebuild.

IMO - now is the time to start buying, and continue that through next season and beyond.


This.

Any 2nd round pick we draft this year won't be an impact player until the last year of Gaudreaus contract if we're lucky and that's what they becomd.

[The Fonz]

This.

Any 2nd round pick we draft this year won't be an impact player until the last year of Gaudreaus contract if we're lucky and that's what they becomd.

That's a good thing. We need to have some sort of succession plan in place for when players like Gaudreau either get old, or price themselves off of our roster. If Gaudreau is approaching 30yo, and we don't have any impact players growing in our system, we're in big trouble.

[GreenLantern]

Agreed, this team has enough picks and prospects stock piled at this point, I am saying we should part with any to help our playoff chances but I definitely don't think we need to recoup any to hurt them. Let Versteeg finish and if he wants give him another contract at the same value. Although I imagine with his play this year he can do better.

[bigrangy]

This.

Any 2nd round pick we draft this year won't be an impact player until the last year of Gaudreaus contract if we're lucky and that's what they becomd.

Yes, but a player drafted in the second right now could be a good enough trade chip when Brad is going all in next year at the deadline to put the team over the top.

This team still needs to accumulate assets. I personally don't believe you can think of buying hard until Bennett is a good top sixer. Give it time.

On Versteeg, a 1 year contract, tops. But if you can get a conditional first for him, bye.

[polak]

A 2nd round pick isn't going all in.

Trading Kylington and Bennett for a Veteran scorer is going all in.

[ComixZone]

A 2nd round pick isn't going all in.

Trading Kylington and Bennett for a Veteran scorer is going all in.

Exactly this. Especially a 2017 2nd. I'd also be fine with dealing this year's 1st if it's a piece that can be here beyond this season (only when it comes to a goalie or a winger, as we do have space to protect those positions in the expansion).

[dino7c]

For the Flames to beat Anaheim they would have had to add

Anaheim conditional is better

nobody missed the boat here that is the point


I would be as happy as anyone else here if the Flames went on a run, its just very unlikely.

Lets just try and win tonight, otherwise LA is 4 points back with 2 games in hand

[keenan87]

Well I think by 2018 we should be a constant playoff team. Free agent signings will be crucial with all the money coming off the books. Development of Bennett and his future is also key to the Flames taking the next step. The Flmes aren't in win now mode and it often takes 5-6 years of rebuilding before a team can even start thinking about winning it all. The Flames trajectory seems to be going in the right place and even tho there have been some bumps the team is still on the right course. Unless it's a player like a Duchene or Landy or Kane that second is not on the table for a veteran who won't be playing on this team.'

I agree that it takes a few years for a team to seriously be a contender. However, here is my argument when you say it takes 5-6 years before a team should even think about winning because I think the Flames window is starting to open now.

Top 3 Dman:
Mark Giordano - 33
TJ Brodie - 26
Dougie Hamilton - 23

Top 3 Forwards:
Johnny Gaudreau - 23
Sean Monahan - 22
Mikael Backlund - 27

I understand that we have some young players on our team but lots of other teams win the cup every year with top young upcoming players. That is why I think next year is a big year for this team and they need to start proving that they are a contender.

Chicago had Toews and Kane
LA had Doughty and Kopitar
Anaheim and Getzlaf and Perry
Carolina had Staal and Ward

Young players are always making an impact on cup winning teams and are usually their best players. Monahan and Gaudreau have been in the league for a few years so they have experience.

[Beninho]

'

I agree that it takes a few years for a team to seriously be a contender. However, here is my argument when you say it takes 5-6 years before a team should even think about winning because I think the Flames window is starting to open now.

Top 3 Dman:
Mark Giordano - 33
TJ Brodie - 26
Dougie Hamilton - 23

Top 3 Forwards:
Johnny Gaudreau - 23
Sean Monahan - 22
Mikael Backlund - 27

I understand that we have some young players on our team but lots of other teams win the cup every year with top young upcoming players. That is why I think next year is a big year for this team and they need to start proving that they are a contender.

Chicago had Toews and Kane
LA had Doughty and Kopitar
Anaheim and Getzlaf and Perry
Carolina had Staal and Ward

Young players are always making an impact on cup winning teams and are usually their best players. Monahan and Gaudreau have been in the league for a few years so they have experience.

You still have to wait for Bennett and even Tkachuk to grow into the players they will be. The window is a lot closer than it is further away but the team is still missing a a very good top 6 forward to actually make a run. It's not the year to go all in, waisting a second on Eaves won't put us over the top. Not even close

[polak]

You still have to wait for Bennett and even Tkachuk to grow into the players they will be. The window is a lot closer than it is further away but the team is still missing a a very good top 6 forward to actually make a run. It's not the year to go all in, waisting a second on Eaves won't put us over the top. Not even close

wasting a second in a bad draft also won't mortgage our future.

The window is open now. We're in the running for a play off spot and have Gaudreau for 6 more years before he's free to leave. 5 after this year.

How much longer are you going to wait before you're ready to risk middling picks for playoff help? And if Bennett doesn't get better? Tkachuk falls off? Gaudreau doesn't recover?

I think middling picks in years where you have a legitimate shot at playoffs should always be on the table. Who knows when you'll be in the playoffs next. A 2nd round pick is not a big risk.

[The Fonz]

I have to ask, if not now... what exactly are we waiting for? It should be noted that if the Flames just wait and wait until everything lines up just right, then they're going to miss the window and suffer through another rebuild.

IMO - now is the time to start buying, and continue that through next season and beyond.

I'd argue that the rebuild we're going through right now may have been induced by the fact that we only had 1 x 2nd round pick in the 7 drafts between 2004 - 2010.

Our core players are 19 (Tkachuk), 20 (Bennett), 22 (Monahan), 23 (Hamilton), 23 (Gaudreau), and 26 (Brodie) years old. We are no panic whatsoever in going for a cup over the next couple seasons.

[Vinny01]

I'd argue that the rebuild we're going through right now may have been induced by the fact that we only had 1 x 2nd round pick in the 7 drafts between 2004 - 2010.

Our core players are 19 (Tkachuk), 20 (Bennett), 22 (Monahan), 23 (Hamilton), 23 (Gaudreau), and 26 (Brodie) years old. We are no panic whatsoever in going for a cup over the next couple seasons.

Flames have also drafted in the second round 6x in the last 3 drafts (2014 look like 2 busts, 2015-16 look like 4 beauties)

I think this season they could afford to send out a few picks

[thefoss1957]

Ha! Now the Ducks have a beard to compete with Burns and Thornton.




We will have to see how Eaves does without Seguin and Benn.

[bigrangy]

wasting a second in a bad draft also won't mortgage our future.

The window is open now. We're in the running for a play off spot and have Gaudreau for 6 more years before he's free to leave. 5 after this year.

How much longer are you going to wait before you're ready to risk middling picks for playoff help? And if Bennett doesn't get better? Tkachuk falls off? Gaudreau doesn't recover?

I think middling picks in years where you have a legitimate shot at playoffs should always be on the table. Who knows when you'll be in the playoffs next. A 2nd round pick is not a big risk.

If Bennett doesn't get better or Tkachuk falls off, this team will never compete.

In the grand scheme of things, the Flames haven't sucked hard enough or long enough to guarantee some years of contention after this rebuild. A quality top 6 forward is still required, alongside a good #4 and a starting goalie. Assets need to be directed towards filing those holes, and it needs to be done in a manner that allows at least a few mistakes, because no GM is perfect.

[DropIt]

Hasn't Eaves been a 3rd line player up until this season? Seems like a high price for a 32 year old having a complete anomaly season.

[Moneyhands23]

I agree with you.

As Flames fans we've been dutifully trained to not expect a 2nd round draft pick to ever impact the main roster.

The only 2nd round picks that have played more than 200 games in the last 20 years have been Blair Betts, Brandon Prust and Kurtis Foster.

That absolutely sickens me. I have a lot of hope for Anderson and Killington. If neither of them impacts the roster then our chance of a long successful playoff team is really low.

[Moneyhands23]

This does beg the question, what can the Flames get for Versteeg? Not saying I would necessarily move him but if Eaves can return this...

Talk about asset management. If BT pulled off a trade for Versteeg in this realm that would be very solid.

Nice idea!

[keenan87]

I'd argue that the rebuild we're going through right now may have been induced by the fact that we only had 1 x 2nd round pick in the 7 drafts between 2004 - 2010.

Our core players are 19 (Tkachuk), 20 (Bennett), 22 (Monahan), 23 (Hamilton), 23 (Gaudreau), and 26 (Brodie) years old. We are no panic whatsoever in going for a cup over the next couple seasons.

Our captain is 33 years old, our second line center is 27, and frankly Brodie at 26 means he should be at his prime and not considered a young guy. Like I have said before, teams have won the cup with young players before. These guys aren't playing their first year in the league anymore. Time to put the pressure on them to win and management needs to make sure that the right support players are put into place.

What are we waiting for? Bennett to turn 25? ... 5 more years from now before we put on the pressure?

[Strange Brew]

Versteeg's contribution to a playoff berth and a potential run far outstrips what he might garner for the Flames in a trade.

What do you presume he would return in a trade? You kind of need to have an idea of that in order to make this statement.

I maybe don't see him quite as valuable as you do, and given propensity for injury and UFA status, I wouldn't shut the door on a trade. What if he could get you 2 seconds?

[Lanny_McDonald]

wasting a second in a bad draft also won't mortgage our future.

The window is open now. We're in the running for a play off spot and have Gaudreau for 6 more years before he's free to leave. 5 after this year.

How much longer are you going to wait before you're ready to risk middling picks for playoff help? And if Bennett doesn't get better? Tkachuk falls off? Gaudreau doesn't recover?

I think middling picks in years where you have a legitimate shot at playoffs should always be on the table. Who knows when you'll be in the playoffs next. A 2nd round pick is not a big risk.

That worked so well in the past, Mr. Sutter.

[MrMastodonFarm]

The window might be open but it's still early spring and nights get cold. Wait another season when Gaudreau, Brodie, Monahan, Giordano, etc aren't all having off seasons and the window is open wider then go for it. Summer isn't here. And yes, only having one pick, weak draft or not, in the top 90 is going all in. This bold type of strategy should only be for the true contenders.

Weak draft doesn't mean no players are available. 2012 was seen as a weak draft but Shayne Gostisbehere, Colton Parayko, Jake McCabe are still drafted outside the 1st round.

[Flash Walken]

The window might be open but it's still early spring and nights get cold. Wait another season when Gaudreau, Brodie, Monahan, Giordano, etc aren't all having off seasons and the window is open wider then go for it. Summer isn't here. And yes, only having one pick, weak draft or not, in the top 90 is going all in. This bold type of strategy should only be for the true contenders.

Weak draft doesn't mean no players are available. 2012 was seen as a weak draft but Shayne Gostisbehere, Colton Parayko, Jake McCabe are still drafted outside the 1st round.

If Anything, perceived weak draft is a time to stock up on quantity if the perceived value of picks is lower. If Eaves is going for a conditional 1st rounder this year, get some 2nds and 3rds for guys who would normally go for 4ths and 5ths.

You don't have to hit home runs all the time, just graduating competent NHLers is what you need.

[Flash Walken]

That worked so well in the past, Mr. Sutter.

Remember that time when the Flames didn't draft a single time in the 2nd round for 4 consecutive drafts?

Also, I just looked at the draft record again and I was wrong about only prust, foster and betts being the only 2nd round picks with 200 games in the last 20 years.

Prust was a 3rd round pick, but another successful 2nd round pick was Stoll (ugh).

So, still technically three, and the most successful one didn't play a single game for the Flames.

Pre-game drinking motivation.

[ricosuave]

I think that Anaheim's window is closing, what with Chicago looking normal this year, etc

[Enoch Root]

Haven't read the thread, so sorry if repetitive, but I would much rather have Stone than Eaves.

Just shows what a great price Treliving paid for him.

[VladtheImpaler]

Remember that time when the Flames didn't draft a single time in the 2nd round for 4 consecutive drafts?

Also, I just looked at the draft record again and I was wrong about only prust, foster and betts being the only 2nd round picks with 200 games in the last 20 years.

Prust was a 3rd round pick, but another successful 2nd round pick was Stoll (ugh).

So, still technically three, and the most successful one didn't play a single game for the Flames.

Pre-game drinking motivation.

Is it bad drafting or bad development? (Or a llittle bit of 1 and 2) Obviously, some terrible picks over the years, but why can't we graduate anyone from the farm?

[Displaced Flames fan]

21 goals playing with some pretty great players

Exactly, and having a career year at age 32. Do not trust.

[MarkGio]

Hasn't Eaves been a 3rd line player up until this season? Seems like a high price for a 32 year old having a complete anomaly season.

Hence Dallas wasn't given a 1st round pick. There's still a chance Eaves can score 25 goals this season. Any year a 25 goal scorer is worth a 1st. But because Eaves is having an anomaly season teams aren't giving up face value.

But good on Dallas for selling Eaves when his stock hasn't been so high.

[MarkGio]

What do you presume he would return in a trade? You kind of need to have an idea of that in order to make this statement.

I maybe don't see him quite as valuable as you do, and given propensity for injury and UFA status, I wouldn't shut the door on a trade. What if he could get you 2 seconds?

I would largely agree Versteeg isn't worth trading. But if some team is crazy enough to give up a 1st? You'd hope Treliving pulls the trigger there. I would guess he's worth a 3rd, maybe even a 2nd if GMs go crazy.

[iamca]

If Bennett doesn't get better or Tkachuk falls off, this team will never compete.

In the grand scheme of things, the Flames haven't sucked hard enough or long enough to guarantee some years of contention after this rebuild. A quality top 6 forward is still required, alongside a good #4 and a starting goalie. Assets need to be directed towards filing those holes, and it needs to be done in a manner that allows at least a few mistakes, because no GM is perfect.
Bennett is 20 years old and Tkachuk is 19 and they are both going to be successful at the NHL level.

Even though Bennett is not having a stellar season, he's 20 years old.

How long did it take for Backlund to have the type of season he's having this year? Patience is necessary with player development, especially at the NHL level when they are not spending any time developing in the AHL.

[Flash Walken]

Is it bad drafting or bad development? (Or a llittle bit of 1 and 2) Obviously, some terrible picks over the years, but why can't we graduate anyone from the farm?In the last 20 years:

- The Flames have drafted 22x in the 2nd round

- The Flames have drafted 4 players from Russia in the 2nd round with a total of 0 games played

- There have been 6 players drafted by the flames from European teams in the 2nd round in the last twenty years, the only one who has played more than 1 game is Granlund.

[Sylvanfan]

Well I hope Eaves scores 5 goals today to lead Anaheim to a win

[Robbob]

I think it is worth noting 2nd round picks by regime.

Treliving - 2014 to current -3 drafts 6 selections (Smith, Macdonald, Andersson, Kylington, Dube, Parsons)
Feaster 2011-2013 - 3 drafts selected 3 times (Granlund, Wotherspoon, Sielof)
Sutter 2003-2010 - 8 drafts and only selected twice in 2nd round (Wahl, Ramholt)

Didn't want to get in much detail pre 2003 as it was the dark years where like it has been mentioned, Button took fliers on a bunch of Russians that never panned out. That being said Stoll was a solid selection, just not here.

Bottom line the reason we haven't seen anything from the second round is because Sutter avoided them like the plague. I still believe that there is a lot of value in second round picks. The flames just don't have the best track record in the past.