What would Giordano fetch Flames at trade deadline

[wired]

I like Gio, but is he captain material any more? Is he a fit on this team?
Some on the forum have said they think he will be traded before years end.
Thoughts on what he would fetch?
Mods please delete if this topic was brought up before.

[transplant99]

There is a gaping hole in the top 4 WITH Gio...what does the defense look like without a guy who is eating 24 minutes a night?

I have no desire to find out.

[Dion]

He's not going anywhere. He's had a huge influence on the development of Dougie Hamilton.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

What would Glen Gulutzan fetch at the trade deadline?

A kick in the nuts?

Sold!

[Huntingwhale]

I like Gio, but is he captain material any more? Is he a fit on this team?
Some on the forum have said they think he will be traded before years end.
Thoughts on what he would fetch?
Mods please delete if this topic was brought up before.

LOL is he a fit on this team. Is the team's #1 Defender and team captain a fit on the team? :rolleyes:

[Textcritic]

The Flames are in a playoff race. There is no way in hell they will entertain trading away their captain and #1 defenseman.

[Jaydee]

The Flames are in a playoff race. There is no way in hell they will entertain trading away their captain and #1 defenseman.

They did go on a tear when gio went down 2 years ago

[topfiverecords]

Whatever it is he'll fetch he'll beat Wideman to it.

[Textcritic]

They did go on a tear when gio went down 2 years ago
Was that because they were a better team without him in the lineup? Or was their performance a product of adrenaline and added motivation to "win one for the Gipper"?

The Flames are not trading Mark Giordano any time soon.

[Jaydee]

Who would take him though?

[jaginla]

A 10th Place finish.

[Strange Brew]

The Flames should entertain trading anyone if it helps them compete for a championship. If someone wants Giordano, or anyone else on this team bad enough, trade 'em.

That said, Gio is not going anywhere. For many reasons.

[getbak]

A nice severance package for Treliving.

[JiriHrdina]

Why are you even asking if he's captain material? What shred of evidence do you have that he isn't?

[Gaskal]

2 goals and an assist in 24:40 of ice time

[Reggie Dunlop]

I don't see him being traded at this point in time.

[DJones]

I think he's been our best player this year.

Foolish to trade him

[cKy]

I think he's been our best player this year.

Foolish to trade him

wut? Backlund has been our best player.

[Calgary4LIfe]

They did go on a tear when gio went down 2 years ago

Wideman and Russell really stepped up and functioned like a pretty decent top-pair, and Brodie and Engelland stepped up nicely as well.

Who will step up in Giordano's absence this year? Though I think Wideman is unfairly made a whipping boy on these boards, even I would not expect him to step up to that level again. Even if Hamilton, Brodie and Engelland all stepped-up, the Flames would still need at least one more quality top 4 defencemen to play against top talent and eat up some minutes.

I think the answer is... Giordano!

[CSharp]

Gio ain't getting any younger. Flames are still a bubble team and may have a good chance of missing the playoffs if the Blues, Kings, and Preds hold on to that last 3 spots. Stars and Jets coming right behind as well. So, if you look for long term gain, I don't think trading Gio's a bad thing if you can get a couple blue chip prospects to build the team for the long haul. By trading him, you lose his big cap hit, especially on Gio's last 3 years of the contract. Plus, you also free up a spot to protect another player for the expansion draft. Not a bad idea as most would think.

[the2bears]

Who would take him though?

Seriously?

[Snuffleupagus]

Why are you even asking if he's captain material? What shred of evidence do you have that he isn't?
From all accts he's a great guy and works his tail off. only thing that bothers me is he could have a bit more salt & pepper when it comes to people taking liberty's on the teams best offensive player.

When Minny targeted Gaudreau for 2 periods Parise or Granland should have eaten a non-food product and it should have been announced to Boudreau and the Minny bench that more will come if they keep it up. After the broken finger Staal should have been turned purple.

[CroFlames]

He's definitely not getting traded this year, and I'd bet my house on that. The Captain of a club in the midst of a playoff race does not get traded.

Does he get traded if Flames miss? Debatable. What would he fetch? A 1st and a roster player and a prospect I would think.

[FlamesAddiction]

A trade like that would more likely happen in the off-season than at the trade deadline. He wouldn't be a rental and acquiring a contract like his would require most teams to clear space and plan ahead.

[Imported_Aussie]

This thread is below Par. And we know what Par is like...

Team captain, long time player who has played whole NHL career here, full NTC, plays on top pairing...
Sure he has a high cap hit, and is getting older, but trading Giordano send the absolute wrong message and creates a hole on the blueline that would take a lot of time to fill.

[Phaneuf_Phan]

[QUOTE=Imported_Aussie;6121774]creates a whole on the blueline

I think the whole discussion would be different if the questions about Gio were asked before the Flames went on their recent winning streak. Gio's stock price increased since then.

[Northendzone]

i would have to think that the return for gio at the deadline would be quite different than the return for gio in the off season.

i would assume that an off-season deal would net very little for the flames as the flames win by getting rid of a big contract with a longer term.

while at the deadline, you may get a motivated buyer who is willing to part with much more due to the fact they are blinded by the glare off of the cup.

but ultimately, what do i know as i am not a gm in the nhl.

[Erick Estrada]

There is zero chance he's traded this season. The offseason there's a small possibility but it would have to be the type of deal where a guy like Hamonic is coming back. He has one of those contracts where Treliving should always be listening if a team calls.

[PlayfulGenius]

This thread is below Par. And we know what Par is like...

Team captain, long time player who has played whole NHL career here, full NTC, plays on top pairing...
Sure he has a high cap hit, and is getting older, but trading Giordano send the absolute wrong message and creates a hole on the blueline that would take a lot of time to fill.

Your post (and those like it) are FAR below Par...

... firstly, it's just speculation ...for the most part, no one is disrespecting Gio...

...secondly, your assessment assumes there's no return ... leaves a hole on D??? ...uh, who says there isn't a D coming back in the deal???

[DJones]

wut? Backlund has been our best player.

Toss up for me.

I think Giordano has been playing the best defense of his career.

[Imported_Aussie]

Your post (and those like it) are FAR below Par...

... firstly, it's just speculation ...for the most part, no one is disrespecting Gio...

...secondly, your assessment assumes there's no return ... leaves a hole on D??? ...uh, who says there isn't a D coming back in the deal???

The return on that trade could be anything. It could even be a defenceman as good as Giordano, you know how much we want one of those!

The thing people need to remember is that as much as the NHL is a business, and contracts/players can, and do get moved, it is also not a video game. Actions taken have real-life consequences. NHL players are people who, just like us all, have emotional reactions to the world around them. Moving a team captain after 1 year of his big deal may leave players across the league looking negatively at this organization.
When the time comes to bid on a free agent, or re-up a key piece, that comes back to bite you.


Am I wrong to suggest that trading the team captain, one year into a large deal, when most people acknowledge that the team needs to reinforce, not weaken the defence, is a ludicrous suggestion?

[GordonBlue]

Gio ain't getting any younger. Flames are still a bubble team and may have a good chance of missing the playoffs if the Blues, Kings, and Preds hold on to that last 3 spots. Stars and Jets coming right behind as well. So, if you look for long term gain, I don't think trading Gio's a bad thing if you can get a couple blue chip prospects to build the team for the long haul. By trading him, you lose his big cap hit, especially on Gio's last 3 years of the contract. Plus, you also free up a spot to protect another player for the expansion draft. Not a bad idea as most would think.

you'll get less for him than you think, because of the huge cap hit, remaining time on deal and his age.
one of those cases that the player has the most value to the team he's current on.

[Badgers Nose]

rebuild the rebuild?

I think best value would be picks and prospects (a really good kid and a high draft pick), which would suck as the Flames are starting to emerge from rebuild status. The team to take him would be a contender so the pick would likely be 20-30 overall.

You can't get anyone who currently plays that would add as much as Gio does by trading him, and you would destroy our defense.

You are not getting a star player for Gio IMO.

[Doc Hudson]

Pretty silly for everyone to say no way they would do this. We are not winning the cup the year, our young core have time to get better... and by then Brodie and Hamilton will be more seasoned vets.

Who guys wouldn't make a Gio + Elliott for MAF + Derrick Pouliot + Daniel Sprong + 1st and 2nd in 2017... or you wouldn't even listen?

You have to face either trading a player before you are ready OR waiting too long until the value is low. I'm not saying I would trade Gio, but I would listen.

[JiriHrdina]

From all accts he's a great guy and works his tail off. only thing that bothers me is he could have a bit more salt & pepper when it comes to people taking liberty's on the teams best offensive player.

When Minny targeted Gaudreau for 2 periods Parise or Granland should have eaten a non-food product and it should have been announced to Boudreau and the Minny bench that more will come if they keep it up. After the broken finger Staal should have been turned purple.

That tactic sounds great on paper but is highly ineffective and rarely employed in the actual NHL any more.
So on that basis I view it as a very fair way to judge his leadership.

[Hot_Flatus]

Why are you even asking if he's captain material? What shred of evidence do you have that he isn't?

I would say he's been a disappointment this season. His offensive game is starting to look like it is in a massive decline. For someone with his price tag, a huge portion of his value is tied to his offensive output whether fans like it or not. As far as whether or not he's captain material....not sure that is up for debate since he is the captain. I don't really think there's anyone else who would be a better captain at this point either.

What would he fetch in a trade - tough to say. Huge, long-term deal. Post apex player. Probably nowhere near what you'd expect. He's more valuable here than if moved out imho.

[codynw]

Pretty silly for everyone to say no way they would do this. We are not winning the cup the year, our young core have time to get better... and by then Brodie and Hamilton will be more seasoned vets.

Who guys wouldn't make a Gio + Elliott for MAF + Derrick Pouliot + Daniel Sprong + 1st and 2nd in 2017... or you wouldn't even listen?

You have to face either trading a player before you are ready OR waiting too long until the value is low. I'm not saying I would trade Gio, but I would listen.

Or you could keep him and let him retire a Flame. Not every player needs to be traded.

[Classic_Sniper]

The idea of trading Mark Giordano might be one of the most foolish things Treliving could do. The Flames should be looking for more defensemen, not trading away defensemen; especially ones that have been as reliable as he has been this year. Where would Dougie Hamilton be without Giordano this year? May be on another team since he was struggling so mightily before being paired with Gio. Brodie has been instantly better when paired with Gio as well.

He elevates the play of anyone he's paired with. That's what #1 defensemen do. He plays against top lines, can produce offensively at a high level and has an exemplary work ethic. I have zero interest in trading him and am certain the team would be a bottom 5 team this year without him.

Any trade involving him would have to be a Hall-Larson like trade. As in, we fleece the other team from everyones' perspective. That's the only way I'd consider it. Better be a 1st round pick in there as well.

[The Fonz]

Trading Giordano would fetch us a bottom 5 finish in the league next season.

Brodie Hamilton
Jokipakka UFA
Kulak UFA
Wotherspoon

That would just be horrible.

[undercoverbrother]

I like Gio, but is he captain material any more? Is he a fit on this team?
Some on the forum have said they think he will be traded before years end.
Thoughts on what he would fetch?
Mods please delete if this topic was brought up before.

Location: Edmonton


:whistle:

[undercoverbrother]

From all accts he's a great guy and works his tail off. only thing that bothers me is he could have a bit more salt & pepper when it comes to people taking liberty's on the teams best offensive player.

When Minny targeted Gaudreau for 2 periods Parise or Granland should have eaten a non-food product and it should have been announced to Boudreau and the Minny bench that more will come if they keep it up. After the broken finger Staal should have been turned purple.

I would rather he lead and show his disdain for Minny by putting a few biscuits in the basket.

Gio sitting in the box for 5 mins for fighting or breaking his hand on a helmet doesn't help anyone other than the opposition.

[CsInMyBlood]

It's funny, if Mark Giordano was on say, the Tampa Bay Lightning, and there were rumors he was available for trade, I guarantee this board would have a thread about what we would have to give up to get this first pairing defenseman.

[keenan87]

I would rather he lead and show his disdain for Minny by putting a few biscuits in the basket.

Gio sitting in the box for 5 mins for fighting or breaking his hand on a helmet doesn't help anyone other than the opposition.

Personally, I would rather take a risk on the latter so other teams don't continue to take liberties with our young players. No need to become a bunch of pansies.

[Badgers Nose]

Pretty silly for everyone to say no way they would do this. We are not winning the cup the year, our young core have time to get better... and by then Brodie and Hamilton will be more seasoned vets.

Who guys wouldn't make a Gio + Elliott for MAF + Derrick Pouliot + Daniel Sprong + 1st and 2nd in 2017... or you wouldn't even listen?

You have to face either trading a player before you are ready OR waiting too long until the value is low. I'm not saying I would trade Gio, but I would listen.

The only one making that offer is the voice inside your head, that's the problem.

[dissentowner]

Pretty silly for everyone to say no way they would do this. We are not winning the cup the year, our young core have time to get better... and by then Brodie and Hamilton will be more seasoned vets.

Who guys wouldn't make a Gio + Elliott for MAF + Derrick Pouliot + Daniel Sprong + 1st and 2nd in 2017... or you wouldn't even listen?

You have to face either trading a player before you are ready OR waiting too long until the value is low. I'm not saying I would trade Gio, but I would listen.

So let us break this down. You want to trade our Captain and best D man and a mediocre goalie for a mediocre goalie that makes more money with term, a busted defensive prospect, a busted forward prospect, a very late first and second in a weak draft. Ya, that is brutal.

[undercoverbrother]

Personally, I would rather take a risk on the latter so other teams don't continue to take liberties with our young players. No need to become a bunch of pansies.

Not the P-word!

[Doc Hudson]

The only one making that offer is the voice inside your head, that's the problem.
So, you wouldn't even listen? Got it.

Thank goodness you guys aren't our GM. You always talk, sometimes you hang up, sometimes you keep talking. If you hang up though you never know where it could go. If you think the ask is insufficient, then you counter. Usually, if you are good at negotiating, you can get to a place where the costs = benefits. Sometimes you do better (Hamilton trade)...

If you think this is a playoff team, then you are optimistic. If you think we can win the cup with this lineup, then you are misguided. Weak drafts coming up, finishing middle of standings, looks like we may need to trade a player with some actual value to help get us there.

Also, responses like the one you gave and the other one speak to your qualities as a person, not to the quality of your thought processes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Resolute 14]

So, you wouldn't even listen? Got it.

Thank goodness you guys aren't our GM.

Judging by that proposal, we can all be very thankful that you aren't our GM. First off, if your proposal involves quality in exchange for quantity, you had better be the one getting the quality. And given you propose to have us give up by far the best player in the deal in exchange for a lot of... stuff, there's not a chance in hell I'd consider that proposal.

As to the rest of your post, what in the ever loving hell are you going on about?

[wired]

This thread is below Par. And we know what Par is like...

Team captain, long time player who has played whole NHL career here, full NTC, plays on top pairing...
Sure he has a high cap hit, and is getting older, but trading Giordano send the absolute wrong message and creates a hole on the blueline that would take a lot of time to fill.

So, starting a new thread is not a good thing? If you don't like the thread, bypass it.
This started a discussion on Gio, and some forum members seem to get what I am asking, and some don't.
I am not saying trade the guy, I am asking what people think he would get IF the Flames decided that they wanted to change direction.
So diss the thread if you feel the need, or don't.

[bax]

So, you wouldn't even listen? Got it.

Thank goodness you guys aren't our GM. You always talk, sometimes you hang up, sometimes you keep talking. If you hang up though you never know where it could go. If you think the ask is insufficient, then you counter. Usually, if you are good at negotiating, you can get to a place where the costs = benefits. Sometimes you do better (Hamilton trade)...

If you think this is a playoff team, then you are optimistic. If you think we can win the cup with this lineup, then you are misguided. Weak drafts coming up, finishing middle of standings, looks like we may need to trade a player with some actual value to help get us there.

Also, responses like the one you gave and the other one speak to your qualities as a person, not to the quality of your thought processes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Why would you make a counter offer if you had zero intention of trading your captain?

[Classic_Sniper]

So, you wouldn't even listen? Got it.

Thank goodness you guys aren't our GM. You always talk, sometimes you hang up, sometimes you keep talking. If you hang up though you never know where it could go. If you think the ask is insufficient, then you counter. Usually, if you are good at negotiating, you can get to a place where the costs = benefits. Sometimes you do better (Hamilton trade)...

If you think this is a playoff team, then you are optimistic. If you think we can win the cup with this lineup, then you are misguided. Weak drafts coming up, finishing middle of standings, looks like we may need to trade a player with some actual value to help get us there.

Also, responses like the one you gave and the other one speak to your qualities as a person, not to the quality of your thought processes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Thank goodness you're not the GM. Your thought process is to trade our first pairing defenseman for a late first, late second and 2 prospects who haven't shown any guaranteed ability at the NHL level. The team would probably be as bad as the Oilers have been for the last decade.

Hamilton without Giordano looked like an absolute mess this year and Brodie without Giordano is in the top five worst +/- in the entire NHL. Now they're probably better than what the numbers say, but still, how would you make that trade and be certain that you're actually improving your club when all you're getting is a bunch of maybes. The Iginla and Bouwmeester trades were very similar and they look terrible right now.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Giordano because of how well he's elevated the players who he plays with and the work ethic he displays night in and night out. He has shown that he has elite offensive capabilities and any trade that involves him better be a Hall-Larsson type of situation where we clearly get the better player as defensemen always come at a premium.

[Gaskal]

Also, responses like the one you gave and the other one speak to your qualities as a person, not to the quality of your thought processes.
If you're both this trigger-happy and haphazard on trade proposals, I'd grow a thicker skin if I were you.

[Badgers Nose]

So, you wouldn't even listen? Got it.

Thank goodness you guys aren't our GM. You always talk, sometimes you hang up, sometimes you keep talking. If you hang up though you never know where it could go. If you think the ask is insufficient, then you counter. Usually, if you are good at negotiating, you can get to a place where the costs = benefits. Sometimes you do better (Hamilton trade)...

If you think this is a playoff team, then you are optimistic. If you think we can win the cup with this lineup, then you are misguided. Weak drafts coming up, finishing middle of standings, looks like we may need to trade a player with some actual value to help get us there.

Also, responses like the one you gave and the other one speak to your qualities as a person, not to the quality of your thought processes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

I don't think either party makes that offer, that's my point.

I'm sure Flames would listen to offers on any player.

Pure hockey trades don't happen too often any more and I can't think of any player of similar stature to Gio where a trade would help both teams.

So Flames would probably want a very good young player and a high pick. Not sure who would do that because a team with the assets Flames would want probably don't need a player like Gio right now. It's problematic also because of the cap stuff.

I doubt BT would do a quality for quantity trade unless it's quality coming back.

[442scotty]

He's not going anywhere because no team would be stupid enough to take on his contract

[Strange Brew]

Both Brodie and Hamilton's play without Gio is really starting to speak volumes about his value to the Flames.

[Strange Brew]

I don't think either party makes that offer, that's my point.

I'm sure Flames would listen to offers on any player.

Pure hockey trades don't happen too often any more and I can't think of any player of similar stature to Gio where a trade would help both teams.

So Flames would probably want a very good young player and a high pick. Not sure who would do that because a team with the assets Flames would want probably don't need a player like Gio right now. It's problematic also because of the cap stuff.

I doubt BT would do a quality for quantity trade unless it's quality coming back.

The Flames have a not so rich history of quality for quantity trades. Let's hope those days are done.

[undercoverbrother]

The Flames have a not so rich history of quality for quantity trades. Let's hope those days are done.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BD4hFq3CAAACF8P.jpg

[spuzzum]

I'd perhaps consider Gio straight up for Duchene or Draisaitl. Makes us a worse team short term but it's always interesting to think what your current players are worth.

[18YrOldSamBennett]

So let us break this down. You want to trade our Captain and best D man and a mediocre goalie for a mediocre goalie that makes more money with term, a busted defensive prospect, a busted forward prospect, a very late first and second in a weak draft. Ya, that is brutal.

Not that I agree with the trade proposal but I do not know where you are getting the idea that Sprong is a bust. He has good numbers and spent time in the NHL the same season he was drafted. Derrick Pouliot is a boom or bust IMO he will either make it as a top flight NHL top 4 defenseman or he will fail to make an NHL roster. The trade proposal is a bad one, but I do not agree with your player evaluation skills. Just sayin' :whistle:

[Mattman]

Aside from the ludicrous idea of trading the team captain, I think Mark Giordano would fetch an B+ Prospect and two 1sts.
It's a weaker draft so I think two 1st round picks wouldn't be too far fetched.

He's a very valuable leader and is a top 2 defenseman on any team.

[Vinny01]

I don't agree with trading Gio right now but completely understand those that do. 33 with 5 years left on an expensive contract and not putting up near the numbers he has the past 3 years. Gio is still a stud D on this team and absolutely guts the back end if he were to be moved. Flames have a very good top 3 on the blueline but also posses some of the worst bottom 3. Engellend is the only solid piece and he is 34.

If Kulak, Wotherspoon or Jokipakka were better then maybe we could move a Dman but that is not the case.

A team that would trade for him likely is a team whose window is wide open and needs to make a move. I thought the Islanders for Hamonic, Strome, and a 2nd would be a great and realistic return.

I do not see any scenario the Flames move their captain this season or next

[Flash Walken]

This is Giordano's worst offensive season in 7 years.

[dissentowner]

Not that I agree with the trade proposal but I do not know where you are getting the idea that Sprong is a bust. He has good numbers and spent time in the NHL the same season he was drafted. Derrick Pouliot is a boom or bust IMO he will either make it as a top flight NHL top 4 defenseman or he will fail to make an NHL roster. The trade proposal is a bad one, but I do not agree with your player evaluation skills. Just sayin' :whistle:

Have you seen Pittsburgh's bottom 6? Sprong cannot break into that group. He is not going to be an impact player. Pouliot is not needed, we have a glut of D men like that in the AHL. If you are trading Gio you better be getting back a young can't miss player back.

[Doc Hudson]

I also have to add that I was asking if it would be enough to get folks to listen, not that I would make that specific trade. If you think MAF is junk, maybe you counter with Murray. I'm sure the Pens "hang-up" then, but this is all about who blinks first.

It is just plain silly to suggest there is no sense in having conversations with the other GMs and seeing what is out there. If they bring up Gio, you tell them it will cost them an arm and a leg.



Have you seen Pittsburgh's bottom 6? Sprong cannot break into that group. He is not going to be an impact player. Pouliot is not needed, we have a glut of D men like that in the AHL. If you are trading Gio you better be getting back a young can't miss player back.

[Doc Hudson]

What does ever loving hell mean?

Judging by that proposal, we can all be very thankful that you aren't our GM. First off, if your proposal involves quality in exchange for quantity, you had better be the one getting the quality. And given you propose to have us give up by far the best player in the deal in exchange for a lot of... stuff, there's not a chance in hell I'd consider that proposal.

As to the rest of your post, what in the ever loving hell are you going on about?

[Erick Estrada]

This is Giordano's worst offensive season in 7 years.

Outside of the Backlund line pretty well ever other player on the team has having a poor year offensively for the most part. That said there's no doubt Giordano is probably in a bit of a decline. A good GM will know when the time is right to try and move on.

[CSharp]

you'll get less for him than you think, because of the huge cap hit, remaining time on deal and his age.
one of those cases that the player has the most value to the team he's current on.

Not for a team that thinks they can win it all by getting the right player at the right time. Yeah, his current contract stinks like one of those contracts handed out by Sutter, but I'm sure the Flames can absorb some of that contract if the other team is willing to give up something good in return.

For those who talk about ludicrous in trading the captain of the team, please look no further than a few years back. So, it's absolutely ludicrous to be hypocritical about this same situation. The only difference between Iggy and Gio is that if the latter doesn't get traded, Flames are stuck with a $6.75mil cap hit until he retires - and that's in 2022 when it ends.

I just bumped into this from last season's CapFriendly's Armchair GM, my God, if that happened, it would be sweet!

https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/13486

[meh]

I have no issue with Gio. However, I always have thought of a Captain as a "difference maker" or "clutch" guy. I don't know if Gio is that.

[DoubleK]

A good GM will know when the time is right to try and move on.

This might just be that time. They aren't going to win a cup with Gio. Time to move on.

[Resolute 14]

This is Giordano's worst offensive season in 7 years.

Nearly everyone is suffering an offensive decline. That happens when you have an idiot for a coach.

[GordonBlue]

A team that would trade for him likely is a team whose window is wide open and needs to make a move. I thought the Islanders for Hamonic, Strome, and a 2nd would be a great and realistic return.

I do not see any scenario the Flames move their captain this season or next

other than the fact that wang and snow are generally useless, why would they make that trade?
post apex player with a really bad contract going forward. I don't think that's a realistic return when you factor in the contract and salary cap concerns. maybe Hamonic and a draft pick.

[Erick Estrada]

Nearly everyone is suffering an offensive decline. That happens when you have an idiot for a coach.

Problem is that the trade values of most players on this roster have taken a big hit under Gulutzan. Guys like Gaudreau, Brody, Bennett has seen their games plummet to the point you would be selling low on any of them. Not saying the team should trade any of those guys but if an opportunity ever came up to acquire a missing piece there's few assets on this team that haven't taken a major hit in value this season.

[bax]

Problem is that the trade values of most players on this roster have taken a big hit under Gulutzan. Guys like Gaudreau, Brody, Bennett has seen their games plummet to the point you would be selling low on any of them. Not saying the team should trade any of those guys but if an opportunity ever came up to acquire a missing piece there's few assets on this team that haven't taken a major hit in value this season.



But what if...just what if scouts and NHL executives don't judge players solely on their last 50 games played?

[Erick Estrada]

But what if...just what if scouts and NHL executives don't judge players solely on their last 50 games played?

Are you trying to make a case for Wideman having some trade value?

[bax]

Are you trying to make a case for Wideman having some trade value?



No, you didn't mention Wideman. You mentioned Gaudreau, Monahan, Brodie, and Bennett. The point I was making is that their trade values haven't taken a massive hit as you've suggested.

[Flash Walken]

Nearly everyone is suffering an offensive decline. That happens when you have an idiot for a coach.

Hamilton has 11 more points than giordano.

Raise your hand if you thought Michael Freakin' Ferland would have more goals at this point in the season than giordano. Or Alex Chiasson for that matter.

Giordano's production drop has been more significant than anyone else on the roster. I don't think that is just coaching.

[Erick Estrada]

No, you didn't mention Wideman. You mentioned Gaudreau, Monahan, Brodie, and Bennett. The point I was making is that their trade values haven't taken a massive hit as you've suggested.

The point I am making is that by your logic if it doesn't affect Gaudreau, Monahan, Brodie or Bennett then it doesn't effect Wideman. The truth is that it does. Question marks mostly always affect the value of a player. Some teams may think it's a matter of a player needing a change of scenery but others will tread cautiously. Just like when a player has a breakout season in the last year of his deal he will get overpaid for that career season.

[Classic_Sniper]

Hamilton has 11 more points than giordano.

Raise your hand if you thought Michael Freakin' Ferland would have more goals at this point in the season than giordano. Or Alex Chiasson for that matter.

Giordano's production drop has been more significant than anyone else on the roster. I don't think that is just coaching.

His drop has coincided with the fact that he has been paired with Dougie Hamilton. His even strength points are way down from last year because he doesn't rush the puck as often. He generally has to cover up for Hamilton when he makes bad pinches which has happened a lot this season.

He's still in the top 50 for scoring among defensemen and if there's 60 top pairing defensemen in this league then he's still producing at a sufficient pace. He's been the most solid defensive presence on our team this year and I'll take that when you consider how horrible Wideman, Brodie and Hamilton have been defensively this season.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Hamilton hasn't caused Giordano to drop from 56 points to 30 (prorate).

This was talked about in the off season but going from Hartley's Active All D style of play to anything else was going to affect Brodie and Giordano's numbers, but no one thought this much. Hamilton's managed to weather that storm because he's still a young defender on the rise.

[daveinspruce]

Yup let's hold on to him till we get nothing for him.
Ever since he got hurt he hasn't been the same.
This team isn't moving up, look at some of the horrible play this year.
Johnny looks horrible.
Goaltending looks horrible.
Coaching looks horrible.
Defence looks horrible.
Trade him and see if we can't get a young goal scoring R.W. and some picks.
We could even move him and do a trade like Nashville and Montreal did.

[ignite09]

Everyone here knows what NTC means right?

[Buck Murdock]

Wideman + Hanowski and a 3rd for Crosby.

[CSharp]

Everyone here knows what NTC means right?

Means diddley squat if a Cup contender team wants Gio and also Gio wants to win now and the other offering is too good to pass up. Contractual conditions can be removed with an addendum to any clause at any time when agreed by both parties.

[Buff]

Everyone here knows what NTC means right?

The no trade clause, as it is used these days, means the player gets to pick where he is traded.

[Badgers Nose]

Means diddley squat if a Cup contender team wants Gio and also Gio wants to win now and the other offering is too good to pass up. Contractual conditions can be removed with an addendum to any clause at any time when agreed by both parties.

But most contenders won't get rid of important roster players, and are unlikely to have nice high picks. So what could they give you to make it worth trading your captain and D anchor?

[GordonBlue]

But most contenders won't get rid of important roster players, and are unlikely to have nice high picks. So what could they give you to make it worth trading your captain and D anchor?

more like what can be done to get rid of the anchor of a contract?
it's not just about now, but also about the next 5 years.

[DJones]

Hamilton hasn't caused Giordano to drop from 56 points to 30 (prorate).

This was talked about in the off season but going from Hartley's Active All D style of play to anything else was going to affect Brodie and Giordano's numbers, but no one thought this much. Hamilton's managed to weather that storm because he's still a young defender on the rise.

Or because Giordano is playing great defense and Hamilton can freely pinch to the goal line at times.

Meanwhile if Brodie takes a step in at the blue line it's pretty much a goal going the opposite way.

[Resolute 14]

Hamilton has 11 more points than giordano.

Raise your hand if you thought Michael Freakin' Ferland would have more goals at this point in the season than giordano. Or Alex Chiasson for that matter.

Giordano's production drop has been more significant than anyone else on the roster. I don't think that is just coaching.

Obviously Gio isn't going to maintain his last couple years' production indefinitely.

But yes, I would argue Gulutzan is accountable for a good percentage of the drop.

[GioforPM]

Obviously Gio isn't going to maintain his last couple years' production indefinitely.

But yes, I would argue Gulutzan is accountable for a good percentage of the drop.

He's not on the first PP unit, which could account for some. I really don't think the defensive system is holding him down that much.

[Classic_Sniper]

He's not on the first PP unit, which could account for some. I really don't think the defensive system is holding him down that much.

It's his 5 on 5 scoring that has dropped considerably this season from last season. He doesn't rush the puck ever these days nor does he pinch as offen. His role this season is more of a defensive stalwart this year and he's done a great job at that so far.

[Flash Walken]

if he's not on the first PP unit it's probably because he's produced jack and #### on the powerplay this year because he can't hit the net to score goals. And yet, the powerplay is improved statistically from last year.

His shooting percentage this year has dropped to nearly half of last year's percentage.

I'm open to arguments about why that is, but I don't think it's because he hasn't spent enough time on the powerplay. If he was a goal scoring machine, he'd be out there on the first unit.

[Buff]

He's just off with his shot this year. The past few years he was able to find an open lane and accurately snipe from the point. He's not finding that open lane, and as a result, not putting pucks in the net.

[Vaderade]

This team is very average, and not really close to being a contender. He's 33. It's an easy decision to make, in my opinion. Get a return while he still has value.

[FlameZilla]

This team is very average, and not really close to being a contender. He's 33. It's an easy decision to make, in my opinion. Get a return while he still has value.

Giordano's skill set isn't overly reliant on his body, which bodes well for his career's potential longevity. He's always been most reliant on his intelligence and smart positioning more than any one physical skill, plus he's durable and doesn't have a significant history of injuries which nag at him. He's smallish but stocky & in a lot of ways he reminds me of Chris Chelios, who managed to be an annoyingly effective defenceman into his 40s. He provides solidity & leadership more than any other player on the team, and there's no reason to think he won't carry on doing so for the remainder of this contract & beyond.

Don't rip the heart-and-soul out of the dressing room because "he's 33". That act would pull the plug on this season & probably the next as a new leadership hierarchy establishes itself. It would also deplete our defence corps which is already the weakest area on the ice. It would signal another phase of rebuilding, and there's no point doing that now with so many promising young players learning the ropes. Let's not "Oilers" up this rebuild. Choose smart. Choose Giordano. Never choose "Oiler".

[redforever]

Giordano's skill set isn't overly reliant on his body, which bodes well for his career's potential longevity. He's always been most reliant on his intelligence and smart positioning more than any one physical skill, plus he's durable and doesn't have a significant history of injuries which nag at him. He's smallish but stocky & in a lot of ways he reminds me of Chris Chelios, who managed to be an annoyingly effective defenceman into his 40s. He provides solidity & leadership more than any other player on the team, and there's no reason to think he won't carry on doing so for the remainder of this contract & beyond.

Don't rip the heart-and-soul out of the dressing room because "he's 33". That act would pull the plug on this season & probably the next as a new leadership hierarchy establishes itself. It would also deplete our defence corps which is already the weakest area on the ice. It would signal another phase of rebuilding, and there's no point doing that now with so many promising young players learning the ropes. Let's not "Oilers" up this rebuild. Choose smart. Choose Giordano. Never choose "Oiler".

Intelligence - I'll check

Positioning- too slow and getting slower

[OldDutch]

Don't rip the heart-and-soul out of the dressing room because "he's 33". That act would pull the plug on this season & probably the next as a new leadership hierarchy establishes itself. It would also deplete our defence corps which is already the weakest area on the ice. It would signal another phase of rebuilding, and there's no point doing that now with so many promising young players learning the ropes. Let's not "Oilers" up this rebuild. Choose smart. Choose Giordano. Never choose "Oiler".

Wow deja vu all over again from 2010. At any rate I haven't seen much heart and soul this year. Now that maybe GG fault, or it maybe Gio. Who knows, but the results are a coach that is just learning to be passionate and a team that seams disinterested when the going gets tough.

Given everything this season and the Iginla fiasco I say if you get a decent return you trade him. His contract is a boat anchor as soon as next season. He may still get value due to recent reputation.

Trading him maybe full Oiler, but sadly keeping him maybe going full Flame.

[Erick Estrada]

Trading him maybe full Oiler, but sadly keeping him maybe going full Flame.

That's kind of lose lose no? Save for a few brief periods of competency both organizations have been horrendous (Oilers all-time horrendous) for the most part over the past 25 years.

[kukkudo]

I think you keep him till you see a major drop off.

[d_phaneuf]

I'd move him in the summer or at the draft

He hasn't been as great this year but NHL reputation seems to be on delay mostly, it took the league a few years to recognize when he became a top d man, will probably take a year to see he might have moved back a bit

So some contender is going to pay for him as a top pairing guy

From the flames perspective I think the contention window probably opens in 2018/19 season if things go well and by then Gio is 35 and probly a 2nd pairing guy and starting to decline

If you can move him for a package involving a young d man and a young top 6 winger. The value is much better for the team going forward.

The window of this core is 2019-2025 based on the age of the young guys now. A move like above gives that team a much better chance I'm that window while taking a hit now when The ceiling of the team isn't as high

[Erick Estrada]

I'd move him in the summer or at the draft

He hasn't been as great this year but NHL reputation seems to be on delay mostly, it took the league a few years to recognize when he became a top d man, will probably take a year to see he might have moved back a bit

So some contender is going to pay for him as a top pairing guy

From the flames perspective I think the contention window probably opens in 2018/19 season if things go well and by then Gio is 35 and probly a 2nd pairing guy and starting to decline

If you can move him for a package involving a young d man and a young top 6 winger. The value is much better for the team going forward.

The window of this core is 2019-2025 based on the age of the young guys now. A move like above gives that team a much better chance I'm that window while taking a hit now when The ceiling of the team isn't as high

The Flames aren't a team that's close to winning a cup so this is really the most opportune time to trade him before the contract becomes an albatross for the organization. He can still play at a high level but his window is closing fast while the Flames haven't even got a frame up for their Stanley Cup window. The timelines for the player and organization simply don't match and regardless of how the defense would take a step back next season it would be prudent to move him while he has value.

[Textcritic]

...From the flames perspective I think the contention window probably opens in 2018/19 season if things go well and by then Gio is 35 and probly a 2nd pairing guy and starting to decline.

This is true.

If you can move him for a package involving a young d man and a young top 6 winger. The value is much better for the team going forward.

The window of this core is 2019-2025 based on the age of the young guys now. A move like above gives that team a much better chance I'm that window while taking a hit now when The ceiling of the team isn't as high

This is also probably true, although I am not the least convinced that trading Giordano this summer is pragmatic nor realistic. The only way it makes sense is if the Flames are positioned to fill the hole his loss will create. That hole is MUCH easier to fill when Giordano is a second pairing defenseman. Barring a Subban/Weber situation the best option for this team is to wait another year or two until a player like Killington, Anderson, Hickey, or Fox looks poised to contribute. Some players are just never going to recoup their value to the team in a trade, and Giordano is one of them.

[Oil Stain]

I don't think the Flames could trade Giordano unless they retain salary.

He's a good player but that contract is poison. He will be 38! going into the last season on that deal.

If you wander over to hockey reference and search for seasons by defenseman over the age of 37 and scoring 35 or more points you can see its a rare feat. It's only happened 16 times since the 05-06 season and 4 of those are Lidstrom.

I don't see who the market is. Contending teams can't afford the cap hit and rebuilding teams don't want the term. The contract doesn't back dive at all either which makes it unappealing to a team like Phoenix that might be interested in acquiring a low salary/high cap hit player.

The only option is for the Flames to keep him and hoPE he is one of those rare players that eludes father time. Even if he doesn't I'm sure he has a "career ending" injury and the Flames have to deal with a big LTIR situation which isn't great but not the end of the world.

[Machiavelli]

That hole is MUCH easier to fill when Giordano is a second pairing defenseman. Barring a Subban/Weber situation the best option for this team is to wait another year or two until a player like Killington, Anderson, Hickey, or Fox looks poised to contribute. Some players are just never going to recoup their value to the team in a trade, and Giordano is one of them.

That's pretty much the only type of scenario I could see a Gio trade making sense.

[genetic_phreek]

How about Gio to TO for JVR?

[Textcritic]

How about Gio to TO for JVR?

Okay. Who would play defence on the top two pairings?

[TheScorpion]

Okay. Who would play defence on the top two pairings?

Easy!

Jokipakka - Hamilton
Bartkowski - Kulak

And then, for good measure:

Brodie - Wideman

[CliffFletcher]

I don't see who the market is. Contending teams can't afford the cap hit and rebuilding teams don't want the term.

This. How many contending teams have that kind of cap space for the next five seasons? I can't think of one. And a younger, on-the-rise team gives up quality assets for Gio why? For a couple top-pairing seasons and then a huge contract that causes them headaches signing their own young stars.

The deal Gio signed would not have been available from any other team. It was a reward for past performance and a message of stability for this franchise.