2016 Toronto Raptors Off-Season

[bluejays]

An interesting off-season with many questions:
Who will stay/go?
Who should they build around?
Who should they draft?
Who should they sign as a FA?

[Da_Chief]

An interesting off-season with many questions:
Who will stay/go? I think both Bismack and DeMar will go.
Who should they build around? Jonas and Powell
Who should they draft? Trade the pick for immediate help at PF
Who should they sign as a FA? Nicolas Batum

They have Bruno, Bebe, Wright and Powell they've been developing so don't need anymore prospects for the time being. The 9th pick will spend a lot of time on the bench too so might as well move it.

Powell has great attitude, he said he's not taking anytime off and going straight to the gym to get better/stronger for next year.

I would like to see a sign and trade DeRozen to LA.
Sign Batum.

[jayswin]

I think I'm more optimistic about Toronto's perception in the basketball world after this playoff run, especially after the League's biggest star gushed publicly about the fans and basketball culture in our country.

I don't know if it will necessarily translate to success in landing a big free agent, but I think it will at least cause some big players to give it consideration as opposed to the usual "Toronto, as in Canada?!! Yeah, no, not a chance", that's reportedly the norm for star players.

The dream scenario would be Kevin Durant, who has previously seriously considered Toronto, sees everything happening in Toronto and goes, "man, I was considering it before, but look at the fanbase and city now, plus the team is one superstar away from being contenders, and I'd be that guy".

I know it's dreaming, but man would that be awesome.

[Lil Pedro]

How much can DeMar make this off-season? I hear that the TV deal in the NBA has made these new max contracts outrageous

[jayswin]

With the NHL's simplicity in salary cap and rules I'm always left confused by the majority of American sports in this regard. This is what I found on "max contracts" in the nba.

Maximum Player Salaries
As under the prior CBA, in the first year of a new contract a player may receive the greater of 105% of the player’s prior salary, or:


0-6 years of service: 25% of Salary Cap ($12 million this year).

7-9 years of service: 30% of Salary Cap ($14.4 million this year).

10 or more years of service: 35% of Salary Cap ($16.8 million this year).
The maximum player salaries will continue to be based on a 48.04% of BRI Salary Cap (not on the new, higher Salary Cap).


His prior contract was $9.5 mil. So with the salary cap projected to be upwards of $90mil that means he could be around $25mil???? That can't be right? There's no way a guy like DeRozan could be worth that much is there? Wow.

[Jason14h]

Max Contract

Per collective bargaining rules, the Raptors will be able to offer DeRozan up to five years at around $145 million, whereas other teams will be able to offer him up to four years at around $107 million. Toronto general manager Masai Ujiri will address the media early next week.

[jayswin]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nbas-bestworst-case-2016-17-cap-projections/

The NBA’s salary cap projects to climb to roughly $90 million for the 2016-17 season, possibly higher.

Max contracts project to start at $21.1 million for players with up to six years of experience, $25.3 million for those with seven to nine years, and $29.5 million for those with 10 or more years.

[jayswin]

Max Contract

Oh wow, it's even worse, so $29mil/yr by the Raptors.

[killer_carlson]

I let Derozan go to be honest. In a sign and trade if need be. But I move on.

Anyone who signs DeRozan to anywhere near a max contract will end their franchise's prospects for the duration of the contract.

I try to move on from Carrol as well.

[jayswin]

So the Raptors are really at a crossroads as a franchise, as they have built a really great team, but as we've seen in the NBA you simply can't put together a really great team and hope they upset some teams and win a championship like the NHL.

You either get a superstar or two or you have pretty much a zero percent chance of even advancing to the finals, let alone winning it all. The Raptors this season took that nearly zero percent chance about as far as a team with no superstars could.

I hope Masai Ujiri goes balls out in attempting to land a free agent like Kevin Durant and moves on from Demar DeRozan. The sad thing is, signing Demar would actually continue to make us a VERY strong team, but if your goal is to attempt to win it all you're basically saying "Yeah, no, we can't be a championship team in this league, but we'll have strong seasons".

[nik-]

Do you really thing Masai has the sway to let DeRozan walk or trade him?

It's the right basketball move, but this is another in MLSE stable, and that means revenue is the goal. DeRozan is popular and a big part of the growth in the Raptors popularity over the last couple of years. I just don't think they let him make that move.

[jayswin]

Do you really thing Masai has the sway to let DeRozan walk or trade him?

It's the right basketball move, but this is another in MLSE stable, and that means revenue is the goal. DeRozan is popular and a big part of the growth in the Raptors popularity over the last couple of years. I just don't think they let him make that move.

Yeah, unfortunately this team is basically another Blue Jays situation, they'll likely play it safe and just go for the really good team. I couldn't see MLSE paying out luxury taxes to compete with the big franchises even though they could easily afford it.

Just like Rogers and the Blue Jays with their "what do you expect? To spend with the big teams and attempt to win a championship? Keep dreaming stupid fans, this is a business, we'll spend enough to keep your stupid buts in the seats and eyes on the TV and no more".

[jayswin]

Sorry Nik, I misinterpreted your post a little there, as obviously signing Derozan does cost a lot, and you were suggesting the owners will want to play it safe and keep the "familiar" star that they think the fans love over exploring other opportunities to bring them to the next level.

I'm leaving my Rogers rant, though. :D

[bluejays]

They have Bruno, Bebe, Wright and Powell they've been developing so don't need anymore prospects for the time being. The 9th pick will spend a lot of time on the bench too so might as well move it.

Powell has great attitude, he said he's not taking anytime off and going straight to the gym to get better/stronger for next year.

I would like to see a sign and trade DeRozen to LA.
Sign Batum.

This off-season I have no idea what will happen. Last year was pretty much the same, with a lot of small moves. Carroll was a trial, and while I wouldn't say it failed, I didn't think it was as good as expected. As for the three guys mentioned above, do any of them have any potential considering they've been at the end of the bench if anything? Powell looked really smart in limited action but I don't know about the other guys.

As for what I think they should do, when you look at the other teams who are elite, they either have an athletic superstar (ie: Durant and Lebron), or highly intelligent players (ie: Golden State and San Antonio team). Having said this, if the franchise is serious about going for a championship, there are only those two ways (IMO) to get one. If they don't go after Durant this off-season, then they have to build through smart roster signings of ONLY guys who can think quick (and also having good shooting percentages). You look at both GS and OKC, and you have both amazingly intelligent teams. When the game comes down to the last few minutes they think fast, yet make elite non-selfish passes with no panic, when in the Raps situation in crunch time they have one guy (mostly Lowry and DeRozan), who hog the ball and chuck it up with generally a bad or lucky shot. If they somehow sign players who are smart (like Corey Joseph), I think the team can build nicely.

There aren't many elite PG's, so I think by default you have to live with Lowry, so you build around Lowry, Joseph, Valenciunas, and you use everyone else at trade bait. Where the Raps can probably differentiate from other teams is to get a good C. Those are pretty rare nowadays.

[Trojan97]

What are thoughts on moving the 9th and T-Ross for Nerlens Noel? is it an over/under payment? Gives the Raps a young starter at the 4 with loads of potential but who is also further along in their development which helps a Raps team who is looking to win now. Ross would potentially start at the 2 for them and the 9th pick gives them a chance to draft another solid piece for the long term or throw it into another trade to bring in more veteran help (more likely since we're talking Colangelo here). According to realgm trade checker the salaries balance out.

I think it's an interesting option.

[bluejays]

What are thoughts on moving the 9th and T-Ross for Nerlens Noel? is it an over/under payment? Gives the Raps a young starter at the 4 with loads of potential but who is also further along in their development which helps a Raps team who is looking to win now. Ross would potentially start at the 2 for them and the 9th pick gives them a chance to draft another solid piece for the long term or throw it into another trade to bring in more veteran help (more likely since we're talking Colangelo here). According to realgm trade checker the salaries balance out.

I think it's an interesting option.

I'm probably failing to see how it helps the Sixers. I haven't seen Noel play, but just looking at his 11PPG and 8RPG, in his second season tells me that he's worth more than one of the dumbest players in the game, Ross. The 9th pick isn't particularly interesting this year, so I'm thinking it would be a team picking in the top 6ish who could offer up something similar, which would interest the Sixers. The Colangelo connection is interesting as well.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I think everyone but Ross and Biyombo will be back next year. Ross could probably net you a comparable rotational player or high second round pick, Biyombo is going to get a stupid offer and the Raps simply won't be able to afford him even though I'm sure they'd love to keep him given what he brings as an energy, defensive first guy. And to be fair offensively he has improved a lot since he came into the league as a raw guy. He won't be JV with the moves and shooting, but he can finish effectively around the rim now.

One thing we have to remember is giving DeMar the max doesn't mean he's going to play the whole contract here. If it ever goes south, so long as he doesn't regress, he'll be easy enough to trade. We just gotta hope that he works his ass off all summer on the long range shooting. As a 35% 3PT shooter he becomes a lot more dangerous and opens things up more for him doing the pick and roll with JV instead of mostly Lowry. With the same team back, with more JV, more from Wright and Powell and whatever becomes of the 9th pick, be it player or trade, this will still be the team most likely to beat Cleveland (unless we see a Western star migrate somewhere). And maybe LeBron or Kyrie gets hurt and then who knows? Just don't see them breaking up a team this "close", even if we all know it's not that close. The Durant dream died when they beat San Antonio, if the Spurs beat them then maybe he goes, but I think he's in OKC at least one more year.

[jayswin]

Bismack said today he'd be open to a home town discount to stay in Toronto. Obviously that could just be talk, but nice to hear he's at least open to the idea of staying here.

[Jason14h]

If they move Ross could they afford biz and DD? How much of a hometown discount would DD need to take ? I'm not super familiar with NBA cap and whatnot

[St. Pats]

[QUOTE=Jason14h;5773088]If they move Ross could they afford biz and DD? How much of a hometown discount would DD need to take ? I'm not super familiar with NBA cap and whatnot[/QUOTE

The simplified version is they are going to have very little wiggle room. MU saying he will need to be creative and that's pretty obvious. They really need to upgrade the PF position. Personally I think he needs to jettison Ross and Carroll and let Wright and Powell play more. Then use the number 9 pick and whatever else in a deal for a PF.

All simple to type but he is going to have to live up to his wheeler dealer status this summer.

[The Big Chill]

Why would we move Carroll? He was quite good in playoffs and was still likely not %100 healthy.

[St. Pats]

Why would we move Carroll? He was quite good in playoffs and was still likely not %100 healthy.

True they didn't really get to see what Carroll could provide but as MU said he is going to have to get creative. DD will get his money(don't think it's the smartest move but it is going to happen), Lowry signed till next year and the key player on the team, JV the third piece.

So to me that leaves any other player on the roster and the picks to play with and Carroll and Ross making some serious coin are on the table methinks. Can they get somebody cheaper for less money? Can they count on Powell and Wright for more minutes next year? Can they land a PF who is a stretch 4 so that they can have a different skill set at the 3?

So many ways they could go but Carroll to me is far from core and could easily be moved.

[Senator Clay Davis]

You need Carroll or Ross because they both give you the 3 and D wing player though obviously Carroll is better. I doubt Ross is back as he is easier to deal with the shorter and cheaper contract, and while Powell has made Ross expendable to a degree, Powell was also kind of exposed for his lack of size so you still need Carroll to guard bigger 2s or 3s if they go small ball.

Unless Biyombo takes a discount or maybe a short deal where he can opt out again next year I just can't him not getting a big deal from someone in this weak market with an increased cap. What the Knicks pick yields will ultimately be key in the offseason. Hopefully that will solve the PF issue, ideally with Sabonis or Bender falling to them.

[St. Pats]

You need Carroll or Ross because they both give you the 3 and D wing player though obviously Carroll is better. I doubt Ross is back as he is easier to deal with the shorter and cheaper contract, and while Powell has made Ross expendable to a degree, Powell was also kind of exposed for his lack of size so you still need Carroll to guard bigger 2s or 3s if they go small ball.

Unless Biyombo takes a discount or maybe a short deal where he can opt out again next year I just can't him not getting a big deal from someone in this weak market with an increased cap. What the Knicks pick yields will ultimately be key in the offseason. Hopefully that will solve the PF issue, ideally with Sabonis or Bender falling to them.

They do need 3 and D but they don't have to get it from Ross or Carroll. Bender at 9 I don't see that happening / if they take one I think they would lean more toward Chriss who is a good fit with JV.

[Otto-matic]

Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange 9m9 minutes ago
The Raptors ripped up option year on Casey's deal, per team sources. New 3yr deal thru 18-19.

[howard_the_duck]

Personally I don't see them making a selection at 9. I'd be surprised if the picks aren't traded - just no room to infuse more youth on this roster right now as they're in win-now mode.

[Senator Clay Davis]

9th pick on its own though won't net much of a current roster player, and given the Raps are tight against the cap I'm guessing a rookie is what they'd prefer just from a numbers perspective, unless they're trading for a cheap contract. Raps are not going to do much in FA outside whatever happens with Biyombo and DeRozan. I also like re-upping Casey, he's proven himself a borderine top 10 coach or even in the top 10 and my only real issue with him now is the offense should run more through JV, but he's corrected a lot of the other issues I had with him so maybe he'll get this one right too.

[Drake]

WojVerticalNBA:
Toronto assistant Andy Greer is leaving to become the top assistant coach to Tom Thiibodeau in Minnesota, league sources tell @TheVertical.

[kmart]

Would like to see them let DeRozan go, but I doubt it. Powell, despite the terrific end of his season, isn't proven enough and Ross doesn't look like he'll ever be ready. DeRozan looks like the only starting option available.

[TheAlpineOracle]

I'm not sure I want Milsap like is being reported. Old and on the decline. Would have been a nice piece a few years ago, but not now.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Eric offering hope/scaring the #### out of us in two tweets

Eric KoreenVerified account ‏@ekoreen 1h1 hour ago
The Raptors have traded lottery picks for Antonio Davis, Jermaine O'Neal and Kyle Lowry for a reminder that those deals can go any way.

Eric KoreenVerified account ‏@ekoreen 58m58 minutes ago
Also, just for fun: The last time the Raptors had two first-round picks, they took Charlie Villanueva and Joey Graham.

[Drake]

Toronto selects Jakob Poeltl with the No. 9 pick in the NBA Draft.

[devo22]

wooohoooo!!! First Austrian player to be drafted into the NBA. Good to see him go to Canada :)

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Josh Lewenberg ‏@JLew1050
Thunder reportedly passed on Raptors package for Ibaka, which included 9th pick, move him to Orlando for Oladipo, Ilyasova & Sabonis instead

[Drake]

Toronto selects Pascal Siakam with No. 27 pick in the NBA Draft.

[St. Pats]

Pretty underwhelmed by the Raptors picks.

[mivdo]

Dont know much about poetl. Can he play pf? Seems to me to be more a post up guy who can run the floor, not really a stretch four. He was put down as center on the draft program but pf/c when i googled him. I dont know why they would draft a center when they have JV who is still young and coming into his own.

Siakam from what I briefly seen is similar to biyombo. As in aggresive on the boards. Thats about all i can tell.

[dino7c]

Raps seem to draft a lot of europeans...is that because they will actually play in TO

[octothorp]

Dont know much about poetl. Can he play pf? Seems to me to be more a post up guy who can run the floor, not really a stretch four. He was put down as center on the draft program but pf/c when i googled him. I dont know why they would draft a center when they have JV who is still young and coming into his own.

Siakam from what I briefly seen is similar to biyombo. As in aggresive on the boards. Thats about all i can tell.

That's the million dollar question. Even if not, he could be an excellent backup C behind JV and a valuable asset to trade at some point in the future, (or make JV expendable, who I wouldn't trade except for a borderline superstar). Offensively I could see them working together well; he's a solid passer, he's awesome on the pick-and-roll. He only attempted 1 three in two years at Utah, but apparently he's been making them with good regularity in workouts (I've seen a few videos that show he's got very nice form on his shot). It's on defense where it's going to be hard to say that the two can co-exist together. Raptors think he's got amazing foot-speed for a big, so maybe he can, although that doesn't sound like a very Casey lineup. That said, I do like the fact that the Raptors are potentially zigging to the rest of the NBA's zagging: if you can make the defense work, then the offensive upside two having two elite scoring 7-footers on the court is tremendous.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Raptors signed former Wichita State PG Fred Van Vleet. I would not bet against this kid carving out an NBA career.

[Karl]

Would like to see them let DeRozan go, but I doubt it. Powell, despite the terrific end of his season, isn't proven enough and Ross doesn't look like he'll ever be ready. DeRozan looks like the only starting option available.

I thought DeRozan is gone now. Didn't he opt out of his contract from the Raps after they lost to the Cavs??

[Senator Clay Davis]

DeRozan is a straight up free agent, no opt out required. Lowry I believe can opt out after next year.

[octothorp]

I thought DeRozan is gone now. Didn't he opt out of his contract from the Raps after they lost to the Cavs??

He did opt out of the final year, but that was fully expected. He would have made ~$10 million is he didn't opt out, and will probably get closer to $25 million as a free agent. But Raptors still have Bird Rights on him, and can offer him an extra year and higher raises than any other team. If the Raptors really want to keep him and are willing to pay him their max, DeRozan would be turning down as much as ~$40 million in guaranteed earnings by signing a max with someone else.

[jayswin]

DeRozan is a straight up free agent, no opt out required. Lowry I believe can opt out after next year.

No, he opted out last week. He was still signed for next season.

[Hockey Fan #751]

DeRozan signs 5 year deal with Raptors.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/reports-demar-derozan-agrees-deal-raptors/

[bluejays]

I don't know what to think of DeRozan's signing. On one hand, great, they have a player who definitely wants to stay, and it's for 5 years which is alright. On the other hand, it's a lot of money which most would agree that DeRozan is a good 2nd option but not your #1 guy on a championship team. So all in all, I really don't know the implications for how we could get a better player than Demar to be that real number one option while keeping Demar as the second option.

[St. Pats]

I don't know what to think of DeRozan's signing. On one hand, great, they have a player who definitely wants to stay, and it's for 5 years which is alright. On the other hand, it's a lot of money which most would agree that DeRozan is a good 2nd option but not your #1 guy on a championship team. So all in all, I really don't know the implications for how we could get a better player than Demar to be that real number one option while keeping Demar as the second option.

It's impossible without a trade. So they could gut their depth by trading Ross and Carroll to get another option. But otherwise they have decided that making the playoffs for a few years is their ultimate goal. But hey maybe they will actually pass to JV this year. Maybe Powell. Wright et. al. will become stars.

[Jason14h]

But otherwise they have decided that making the playoffs for a few years is their ultimate goal.

The made it to game 6 again the champions with this team, and having Lowry and Derozan hurt.

They are a young team and should be in a similar spot next season.

What did you want them to do? Sign Durant and Lebron?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Well obviously Durant is out seeing as he's meeting with Boston and Miami and no one else from the East. But he's re-signing in OKC anyway so that's a moot point. The Raps are pretty much one injury to LeBron or Kyrie away from being the top team in the East. There's just no way you can do anything other than bring that team back. You just gotta hope DeRozan puts in the effort to become a decent threat from deep. That's really all that's truly missing from his game. Biyombo is obviously gone in light of the contracts currently being handed out like the Mozgov monstrosity. I still think we see Ross dealt at some point for a cheaper, similar player.

[octothorp]

The made it to game 6 again the champions with this team, and having Lowry and Derozan hurt.

They are a young team and should be in a similar spot next season.

What did you want them to do? Sign Durant and Lebron?

And missing JV for most of the series, and with Carroll still getting into rhythm after missing most of the season. I think any opportunity for the Raptors to take the next step to true contender at this point needs to about taking the current pieces, adding (and developing) a few roleplayers, and ultimately becoming a more versatile team at both ends of the court. My fear is that DeRozan sees this contract as validation that he should be taking every possible shot he can take. Him playing a more complete and team-oriented game is crucial: the DeRozan/JV pick-and-roll has been lethal when they've run it. Which hasn't been very often, and not at all during the playoffs. But an elite driving SG and an excellent screening and rim-finish big-man surrounded by above average 3-point shooters in Lowry, Carroll, and Patterson, should be a bread-and-butter play for this team.

After last year I would have zero faith in the Raptors being able to do that, but Casey showed a lot more creativity and flexibility in the playoffs this year. He basically needs to coach the season with that Cleveland matchup in mind.

[bluejays]

I still think we see Ross dealt at some point for a cheaper, similar player.

I can only hope and pray it's done sooner rather than later. I really don't like the guy. Hope they bring his value up and sell him to someone enamored with his athleticism, because the guy really has nothing else going for him.

[octothorp]

Raptors kick of summer-league with a record-tying performance, holding Sacramento to just 47 points (ties a Chinese team for lowest SL total ever), including just 13 points in the 2nd and 3rd quarters combined! Powell and Siakam both looking great, Poeltl okay but not as involved in the offence as I would like, Bruno struggling on offense at times but defensively solid. VanVleet and Singler both played well too. Nice to see the whole team locked in defensively (although that Kings team looks awful despite Cauley-Stein).

[mivdo]

Raptors kick of summer-league with a record-tying performance, holding Sacramento to just 47 points (ties a Chinese team for lowest SL total ever), including just 13 points in the 2nd and 3rd quarters combined! Powell and Siakam both looking great, Poeltl okay but not as involved in the offence as I would like, Bruno struggling on offense at times but defensively solid. VanVleet and Singler both played well too. Nice to see the whole team locked in defensively (although that Kings team looks awful despite Cauley-Stein).

Thats great to her about Siakam. Apperently only played the first half and pas pulled for precautionary measures.

Poetl had 9 reb including 7 offensive with 3 blks. Thats good to hear hopefully he figures how to get his touches. Hopefully with some confidence.

Bruno sounds like the same old bruno and hasnt really taken major steps forward.

[Otto-matic]

Sportsnet ‏@Sportsnet 32s32 seconds ago
Forward Jared Sullinger reveals on Twitter that he's joined the #Raptors: http://sprtsnt.ca/29zRdzC

NBA On Def Pen ‏@NBAOnDefPen 2m2 minutes ago
Jared Sullinger Agrees to One-Year, $6M Deal with Raptors -

[St. Pats]

Sportsnet ‏@Sportsnet 32s32 seconds ago
Forward Jared Sullinger reveals on Twitter that he's joined the #Raptors: http://sprtsnt.ca/29zRdzC

NBA On Def Pen ‏@NBAOnDefPen 2m2 minutes ago
Jared Sullinger Agrees to One-Year, $6M Deal with Raptors -

This is a decent stop gap move. Guy has oodles of talent. If he wasn't such a lazy fat goofball he would be a really good player. They can give him a shot and see if they can get him motivated / even in his present state he is an upgrade. No risk with just a one year deal so it's worth the gamble!

[Hockey Fan #751]

How insane is the NBA that a project can get $6 million on a "show me" contract.

[St. Pats]

How insane is the NBA that a project can get $6 million on a "show me" contract.

Depends what you mean by project. He is one only in the sense that he has some weight issues. The guy can flat out play IF he had it together. Rebounds on both ends, plays at least average defense. Not much offense but at least he can hit like the 10-15 footer so JV could plunk himself underneath and he can pass it into to him. His passing is pretty good.

Right now even with the weight he is a decent backup. The project part not really talent but just poundage.

To me that's worth some cash. Will provide steady minutes and hey who knows maybe MU can make him go on a diet.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Depends what you mean by project. He is one only in the sense that he has some weight issues. The guy can flat out play IF he had it together. Rebounds on both ends, plays at least average defense. Not much offense but at least he can hit like the 10-15 footer so JV could plunk himself underneath and he can pass it into to him. His passing is pretty good.

Right now even with the weight he is a decent backup. The project part not really talent but just poundage.

To me that's worth some cash. Will provide steady minutes and hey who knows maybe MU can make him go on a diet.

A professional athlete with weight issues is a pretty big red flag. His own existence as an athlete revolves around him being shape. Handing out a 6M dollar contract to a guy on the chance he may take himself to a gym so that he can more effectively do his job is ridiculous to me. NBA salaries are out of control and this a prime example of it.

[St. Pats]

A professional athlete with weight issues is a pretty big red flag. His own existence as an athlete revolves around him being shape. Handing out a 6M dollar contract to a guy on the chance he may take himself to a gym so that he can more effectively do his job is ridiculous to me. NBA salaries are out of control and this a prime example of it.

You must cringe then when you read about Greg Oden. Guy made a lot of money and hardly ever played a game. Thing about Sully is that he is still effective at the upper weight as a backup. So he gives them something while they see if they can work with him. I've read a bunch a stuff about him and some say he is lazy and others that he has some disorder. Celtics had some guy work with him last year and he did do an extensive summer workout regime.


But he was gaining weight as the season went along. Maybe MU knows something we don't or thinks he can persuade him. Some of the contracts are nuts / guess we will find out if MU knows what he is doing.

[Hockey Fan #751]

You must cringe then when you read about Greg Oden. Guy made a lot of money and hardly ever played a game. Thing about Sully is that he is still effective at the upper weight as a backup. So he gives them something while they see if they can work with him. I've read a bunch a stuff about him and some say he is lazy and others that he has some disorder. Celtics had some guy work with him last year and he did do an extensive summer workout regime.


But he was gaining weight as the season went along. Maybe MU knows something we don't or thinks he can persuade him. Some of the contracts are nuts / guess we will find out if MU knows what he is doing.

Greg Oden is like the Nail Yakupov of the NBA. Pretty sure that if I have an NHL player and he's being compared in any way to Yakupov he's probably not very good.

I don't mind the idea of signing a guy who needs some work or some luck to turn himself around -- kind of like when the Flames got Colborne. It's just crazy to me that a player like that is worth $6 million in the NBA.

[bluejays]

Greg Oden is like the Nail Yakupov of the NBA. Pretty sure that if I have an NHL player and he's being compared in any way to Yakupov he's probably not very good.

I don't mind the idea of signing a guy who needs some work or some luck to turn himself around -- kind of like when the Flames got Colborne. It's just crazy to me that a player like that is worth $6 million in the NBA.

Say whaaa? The guy didn't play because of his terrible knees. We'll never know if he was good or not because his health was always an issue.

[Displaced Flames fan]

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article89046547.html

It appears Fred Van Vleet has made an impression.

[jayswin]

Depends what you mean by project. He is one only in the sense that he has some weight issues. The guy can flat out play IF he had it together. Rebounds on both ends, plays at least average defense. Not much offense but at least he can hit like the 10-15 footer so JV could plunk himself underneath and he can pass it into to him. His passing is pretty good.


You just described a project. :blink:

[Da_Chief]

Sullinger's work ethics has held him back. He was once projected to be a top 5 pick in his draft year. The talent is there.

[Trojan97]

Sullinger's work ethics has held him back. He was once projected to be a top 5 pick in his draft year. The talent is there.

Alot of that was due to him being medically redflagged because of his knee(s) prior to the draft. There's no denying his laziness tho, being out of shape is one thing but being out of shape when you knowingly have bad knees that could end your career at anytime is an entirely different level.

With that said, for 5.6 mil this may be the best signing of the offseason IMO. That roster is going to be absolutely loaded next year. Just ridiculous depth.

[St. Pats]

You just described a project. :blink:
Not what I think of when the word project is used. Bruno is a project. Two more years from being two years away. Sully has already started in the league. He isn't some hopeful that may get there talent wise with a lot of work on his game. The guy has game. He also likes the occasional triple cheeseburger with extra large fries and a super sized coke. Chase that with maybe a few beers and some nachos. Then after that he needs to think about what he is going to have for lunch!

[TheAlpineOracle]

He looked to be in considerably better shape at the press conference today.

[octothorp]

Not what I think of when the word project is used. Bruno is a project. Two more years from being two years away. Sully has already started in the league. He isn't some hopeful that may get there talent wise with a lot of work on his game. The guy has game. He also likes the occasional triple cheeseburger with extra large fries and a super sized coke. Chase that with maybe a few beers and some nachos. Then after that he needs to think about what he is going to have for lunch!

IMO a project is someone you take who's going to be ineffective early on, but has a long-term upside that makes him worth investing the time and money on. Given that Sully is on a one-year contract and the Raptors are a capped out team going forward with no bird rights to retain him, this is all about what Sully can do for them right now. Definitely not a project.

[St. Pats]

He looked to be in considerably better shape at the press conference today.
Yes he did. Plus he said his only offseason goal was to get in better shape.

[Drake]

Fred VanVleet signed after an impressive showing at NBA Summer League.


The Toronto Raptors announced Monday they have signed guard Fred VanVleet to a multi-year contract. Per team policy, financial terms of the deal were not disclosed.


http://www.nba.com/raptors/press-releases/vanvleet-071816

[TheAlpineOracle]

Anyone else seeing these rumors about Toronto trading for Blake Griffin (Package containing Demarre Carroll and Patrick Patterson). Seems too good to be true.

[howard_the_duck]

Seeing rumors where? Have not seen any legitimate Griffin rumors to the Raps, and certainly not for that package.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I doubt Masai is stupid enough to trade for Blake Griffin. Blake is a UFA after the season and is already being strongly linked to OKC to team up with Westbrook. Lowry is due a massive raise next year as well so it makes resigning Blake very difficult. It'd basically be a one year gamble to win it all, giving up the team's depth in the process. Not worth it.

[Da_Chief]

http://www.morningnewsusa.com/nba-rumors-toronto-raptors-blake-griffin-demarre-carroll-patrick-patterson-la-clippers-2391054.html

Couple sources out there. I like it, the current roster is not going to get it done. I like Carroll and Prince Patrick but them being on this team or not being on this team will not make or break the Raptors.

If they can somehow figure out a way to keep to him beyond next year that will bring more legitimacy to the North.

Starting lineup of Lowry-DeRozen-Powell-Griffin-JV looks better. Sullinger replaces Prince Patrick. Ross would need to step up and be consistent for once. Bruno/Bebe/Poeltl will have to back up JV.

Go for it.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Seeing rumors where? Have not seen any legitimate Griffin rumors to the Raps, and certainly not for that package.

Google it. It's out there. Griffin in the East would be a beast, assuming he recovers.

[TheAlpineOracle]

http://www.morningnewsusa.com/nba-rumors-toronto-raptors-blake-griffin-demarre-carroll-patrick-patterson-la-clippers-2391054.html

Couple sources out there. I like it, the current roster is not going to get it done. I like Carroll and Prince Patrick but them being on this team or not being on this team will not make or break the Raptors.

If they can somehow figure out a way to keep to him beyond next year that will bring more legitimacy to the North.

Starting lineup of Lowry-DeRozen-Powell-Griffin-JV looks better. Sullinger replaces Prince Patrick. Ross would need to step up and be consistent for once. Bruno/Bebe/Poeltl will have to back up JV.

Go for it.


I'm all for getting rid of the Carroll contract. Not that I think he's a bad player, but it's a big hit in a cap world and it kind of constricts the Raps going forward with Lowry and Derozan's deals.

[Senator Clay Davis]

And considering there are multiple reports his knee is a mess and he may never be the same, just another reason to avoid. Besides a package based around Carroll and Patterson is nowhere near good enough. The Clippers will want younger, cheaper, better players. I'm guessing their asking price starts at Poeltl and Powell, which makes it a non-stater.

[Da_Chief]

^Giving up youth only will not work salary cap wise anyways. Carroll and or Prince Patrick would have to go the other way. Raptors have young players/picks they can part with to add on to the deal.

At the end of the day, they're not winning the championship with or without Griffin but would be cool to have a star up here.

[Senator Clay Davis]

It'd be cool for the 40 games he plays before he bolts. Thankfully Masai is maybe the smartest GM in the league and would never consider such a mistake.

[howard_the_duck]

Google it. It's out there. Griffin in the East would be a beast, assuming he recovers.

Thanks, I've Googled it. Read to me like a suggestion vs actual sourced rumor.

[TheAlpineOracle]

^Giving up youth only will not work salary cap wise anyways. Carroll and or Prince Patrick would have to go the other way. Raptors have young players/picks they can part with to add on to the deal.

At the end of the day, they're not winning the championship with or without Griffin but would be cool to have a star up here.

I don't think they would a championship, but I think they could certainly win the East with Griffin. Cleveland isn't untouchable. Toronto took them to 6 games with Derozan playing like #### and no JV. A front court of JV and a healthy Griffin would be unstoppable in the East division.

[TheAlpineOracle]

It'd be cool for the 40 games he plays before he bolts. Thankfully Masai is maybe the smartest GM in the league and would never consider such a mistake.

Masai is one of the smartest GM's in the league. Maybe he sees taking Griffin for one year and unloading the Carroll contract as a great move. Gives the Raps a legit chance at winning the Eastern Championship next year, and allows him some freedom to make some moves going forward.

[howard_the_duck]

I'd also read somewhere that Griffin thought of Toronto as an 'appealing' market, so perhaps plausible he could sign on in this fantasy idea?

I think if you could pull the trigger on a Griffin trade you do it 10 out of 10 times. If it's that asking price? You take it and run.

It won't happen, but acquiring Griffin would be a massive coup for whoever gets their hands on him.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Swapping Carroll for Griffin probably increases their chances of winning the East from 5% to 5.2%. I don't think Griffin helps them that much in beating Cleveland. Losing Carroll hurts a lot more than people think, he's easily their best defender and we saw how badly Powell struggled against anyone bigger than him. LeBron and Kyrie are both a lot bigger than him. So you give up your best wing defender, a role now crucial in todays NBA, for a massive injury risk who downgrades you defensively. If Blake weren't such a massive injury risk it might be worth a gamble. Go after Cousins instead, I'd be willing to give up JV for him. Adding Cousins makes them a much bigger threat than Griffin does.

[TheAlpineOracle]

I'd also read somewhere that Griffin thought of Toronto as an 'appealing' market, so perhaps plausible he could sign on in this fantasy idea?

I think if you could pull the trigger on a Griffin trade you do it 10 out of 10 times. If it's that asking price? You take it and run.

It won't happen, but acquiring Griffin would be a massive coup for whoever gets their hands on him.

I think a lot of players are starting to realize just how appealing the Toronto (Canada) market is. You are in a top 5 city in North America that has more to offer than most US cities not named LA, New York, or Chicago. Aside from that, the 2nd level superstars make serious bank in Canada. Lowry and Derozan are an after-thought in US marketing, and still would be if they played on a US based team. These guys are getting also sorts of marketing deals and face time they would not be getting in the US. They are the only fish in a very big pond.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Swapping Carroll for Griffin probably increases their chances of winning the East from 5% to 5.2%. I don't think Griffin helps them that much in beating Cleveland. Losing Carroll hurts a lot more than people think, he's easily their best defender and we saw how badly Powell struggled against anyone bigger than him. LeBron and Kyrie are both a lot bigger than him. So you give up your best wing defender, a role now crucial in todays NBA, for a massive injury risk who downgrades you defensively. If Blake weren't such a massive injury risk it might be worth a gamble. Go after Cousins instead, I'd be willing to give up JV for him.

Yup. Cousins would be an absolute dream for the Raptors. Way more valuable than Griffin in my opinion.

[octothorp]

I don't think they would a championship, but I think they could certainly win the East with Griffin. Cleveland isn't untouchable. Toronto took them to 6 games with Derozan playing like #### and no JV. A front court of JV and a healthy Griffin would be unstoppable in the East division.

Carroll is the one guy I wouldn't trade for Griffin. Filling a hole at SF is so difficult right now and such a crucial position in the East with the likes of James and George. And the Raptors have no true backup 3 at the moment. He didn't have a great playoffs this year, but that was after missing most of the season. Adding Griffin and taking out Carroll doesn't get them any closer to the finals, in my opinion.

If they can add Griffin for two of Patterson/Ross/Joseph, I'd do it though. And given Bird rights on every free agent (except Sullinger), they should have no problem keeping the core together long-term, provided ownership is willing to spend (which Masai has said they are).

[howard_the_duck]

I also think an injury prone Griffin is the only time he'll be available on the trade market. A healthy Griffin and Carroll wouldn't even be a starting point in trade talks.

In the event he can right his health issues, it'd be a gamble worth taking IMO. The Raps as constructed have no hope to come out of the East.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I also think an injury prone Griffin is the only time he'll be available on the trade market. A healthy Griffin and Carroll wouldn't even be a starting point in trade talks.

In the event he can right his health issues, it'd be a gamble worth taking IMO. The Raps as constructed have no hope to come out of the East.

They are literally one injury to LeBron or Kyrie away from being the East favorites, even if they change nothing else from here on out. They have the most hope of any non-Cleveland team. Adding Blake does not make them any more of a threat to Cleveland. As I said from a pure matchup standpoint, losing Carroll means LeBron and Kyrie probably have their way with the Raps defense. Unless Blake's scoring 40 a game, he won't help them much to beat Cleveland.

[Da_Chief]

They are literally one injury to LeBron or Kyrie away from being the East favorites, even if they change nothing else from here on out. They have the most hope of any non-Cleveland team. Adding Blake does not make them any more of a threat to Cleveland. As I said from a pure matchup standpoint, losing Carroll means LeBron and Kyrie probably have their way with the Raps defense. Unless Blake's scoring 40 a game, he won't help them much to beat Cleveland.

Boston has already moved past the Raps. With the future assets they have, they can easily acquire Westbrook right now and move further ahead.

Lebron is the Cavs, he gets hurt and Cavs are done. Kyrie is nothing without him.

Despite Carroll defending Lebron, he still had his way with the Raps. When he turned it up a notch in game 5 and 6 there was no stopping him. There's really no one in the league who can stop Lebron.

If you can get Griffin on the cheap even for a year, you do it and hope for the best.

[Senator Clay Davis]

But there's the rub isn't it? This "rumour" sounds like a very poor offer for the Clippers to take. It sounds like someone hopes the Clippers trade Blake for fear they'll lose him for nothing, and thus the Raps can lowball their way into getting him. But here's the thing, since the Clippers are in the same boat, why wouldn't they also take another run at it out West? I don't think they'll trade Griffin just to do it, it'll have to be a good offer. Carroll and Patterson is a pretty weak starting point. Raps would have to add multiple first round picks to make that happen I would think. The Clips want picks and young players mostly, and Carroll and Patterson are not that. I think it's just someone's fantasy to see happen. Just like all the Celts fans convinced themselves Durant was coming.

[St. Pats]

Wright out for at least four months. Not good news for him or the Raptors. Think he was going to see more time on the floor this year but this is a real setback for him.

[Trojan97]

Wright out for at least four months. Not good news for him or the Raptors. Think he was going to see more time on the floor this year but this is a real setback for him.

Season doesn't start until the end of October. He should only miss 4-5 weeks of actual the actual season depending on how his recovery goes. Definitely right though that he's going to be playing catchup until at least Christmas. Wouldn't be surprised to see him work the rust off in the d-league until then when he does return.

This definitely opens up garbage time minutes to Van Vleet though, that will be an interesting storyline to follow.

[St. Pats]

So does this Oly experience help or hinder the Raptors. Lowry, DD and JV not getting much vacation/ rest time. Is that going to catch up to them in mid season? Or are the benefits of playing for their country worth the lack of down time?

[octothorp]

So does this Oly experience help or hinder the Raptors. Lowry, DD and JV not getting much vacation/ rest time. Is that going to catch up to them in mid season? Or are the benefits of playing for their country worth the lack of down time?

I think it's a positive; always good to have experience at the highest possible level, and while the games aren't really competitive, the US coaching staff is doing an amazing job keeping them locked in and playing hard regardless of the score. That's a really useful lesson for DeRozan and Lowry, if it's something they can take back with them. And it's good for them to not be the focal point of their team (as well as great for JV to be the focal point of his team).

Besides, the Raptors have reached the point where with the goal now getting to that next level in the playoffs, reducing their minutes in the regular season would probably be a positive.

[calculoso]

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like JV is the focal point for his team vs Brazil. I didn't see him even get a pass (may have missed it) and he's not even on the floor when Lithuania started pulling away.

[Drake]

@EPSNSteinLine:

The Raptors just announced they've finalized the multi-year contract extension with team president Masai Ujiri that @espn reported Aug. 11.

In conjunction with Ujiri's new deal, Toronto promotes Masai's top aides Jeff Weltman (to general manager) and Bobby Webster (assistant GM).

[bluejays]

That's really big news for the Raps. Biggest of the off-season in fact. When there was news earlier this year that NY was interested in poaching him for President, you know he's highly regarded. I like his thinking process as well. Well done ownership!

[Senator Clay Davis]

Losing the Masaiah would have been a terrible blow. Great to lock him up long term, Raps are always going to be competitive with him running the show.

[Senator Clay Davis]

KG has retired. So will this be the greatest HOF class ever? Timmy D, Kobe, KG is a pretty amazing class.